Would you sell out?

[Zoots]

I don't see the big deal of using your song in a commercial and getting paid for it. What's the big deal??? It's still your song. And now it's actually reaching more ears thru the medium of television!

I do see the big deal in getting embarrassed about your own work in the past (example: U2 POP) and changing songs in order to please others (Best Of) and sell more. THAT to me is selling out.

 

[BVS]

I do see the big deal in getting embarrassed about your own work in the past (example: U2 POP) and changing songs in order to please others (Best Of) and sell more. THAT to me is selling out.

That makes absolutely no sense. How is that selling out? They always felt that album was rushed and incomplete. Artist are often embarassed, or at least judge their own work differently in hindsight. That's why so many artist change up their songs live as years go on. Lots of bands rerecord certain songs in their library years down the line. It's not like they knew people would come out in droves to buy yet another version of Numb.

Just because you liked the original version better doesn't make this a case of selling out. Now if they rerecorded the whole album acoustically, i.e. Bon Jovi, or live i.e. Depeche Mode you may have a different argument. Putting slightly changed versions on a best of, whereas that may be a questionable move, it's not a "selling out" move.

 

[Zoots]

They always felt that album was rushed and incomplete.

I think this is where the difference of opinion is. From what I've heard, they did not feel that way when the album was released... only after it failed to sell as many copies as they wished. And suddenly instead of defending it, they apologized for it. How pathetic. That to me, is a classic example of selling out to public tastes and not being true to one's own artistic direction.

There is even a youtube video out there (interview from 1997) where they're defending the album, saying people don't seem to understand it. "It's not a techno album, Larry plays drums on Mofo, you know!". People still didn't get it. So they went and said Okay fuck this. If all you people want is cookie cutter stuff, that's what we will do! Out came plain jane vanilla ATYCLB.

 

[U2Man]

Originally posted by Zootlesque
If all you people want is cookie cutter stuff, that's what we will do! Out came plain jane vanilla ATYCLB.

...and so the true u2 fans went and said Okay fuck ya, zoots.

 

[Zoots]

...and so the true u2 fans went and said Okay fuck ya, zoots.

Haha gimme a break. ATYCLB and HTDAAB are nothing but a pale shadow of their former greatness!

 

[U2Man]

Haha gimme a break. ATYCLB and HTDAAB are nothing but a pale shadow of their former greatness!

dude, you've sold out.

 

[Zoots]

dude, you've sold out.

Wrong. I haven't changed my opinion recently because somebody else felt so. I've always felt that the last 2 albums are mediocre compared to Boy thru Pop. And I'm sticking with it cos I like to stay true to myself.

 

[BVS]

I remember them talking deadlines and being rushed since the get go, but they also defended the album, as they should.

But there were quotes that Larry was saying now let's actually make a pop album rather than just calling it pop, since it's release as well.

I think the rest of what you are saying is heavy speculation, I never found it useful to speculate on why artist took this direction or that. Either enjoy it or don't, but don't waste your time trying to speculate what took them there.

 

[U2girl]

If All that.. is selling out, so is Pop

They always felt that album was rushed and incomplete.

Selling out to me would be what Metallica did in the 90's where they (at least it looked like that to me, I didn't read any interviews) deliberately changed their looks and softened their sound to get more mainstream.

 

[Zoots]

I think the rest of what you are saying is heavy speculation, I never found it useful to speculate on why artist took this direction or that. Either enjoy it or don't, but don't waste your time trying to speculate what took them there.

I agree that some of what I'm saying could very well be speculation since none of us have proof of anything. Actually even if there is documented evidence of the band saying something (like U2 by U2 or some interview on youtube) there is still no proof. The band could be lying, saying one thing in public and thinking differently. Who knows! But it just makes me mad that it seems they have gone back on their own opinions. First they loved and defended Pop. Now they ignore it. Come to think of it, I don't mind ATYCLB & HTDAAB as much as it may seem so from my comments. Sometimes I really enjoy listening to several of the songs on those albums. But the way they seemed to have changed their opinion so drastically on POP (not to mention the totally botched up 90s Best Of) puts a damper on my enjoyment of post 2000 material. I can't help it.

(I boldfaced "seems" cos it's all speculation anyway)

 

[U2Man]

they loved and defended pop when pop came out and they needed to hype it.

never believe what an artist say at the time of release of some new material. it's their job to say that it's incredible.

 

[Zoots]

never believe what an artist say at the time of release of some new material. it's their job to say that it's incredible.

This is true!

Maybe my opinion coincides so much with what Bono felt about POP in 1997 that I'm letting it create a bias.

 

[BVS]

Well my opinion is they honestly felt they didn't finish, I mean it's obvious to me listening to the album and the fact that they changed up or dropped songs so much during Pop shows me they just weren't sure what they were doing. I think one of the reasons for such long studio times recently.

And I think their "apparant" ignoring of Pop, is due more to them not knowing how to fit it in the rest of their library. I mean they played Pop song on this last tour. I think the only place they didn't show up was 18, which really I couldn't give 2 shits about, but honestly couldn't picture Disco, which I think was their only "hit" off that album, fitting in with the rest of their hits.

I mean up to this point, people could have argued they "ignored" Boy, but then all of a sudden they embrace it. They definately ignore October. So I think it's obvious the bias fans have when they focus on the "ignoring of Pop".

 

[U2Man]

This is true!

Maybe my opinion coincides so much with what Bono felt about POP in 1997 that I'm letting it create a bias.

think about it...

bono went from almost calling pop their best ever in 1997

...to heavily implying that it's a crap album ("two crap albums and you're out!").

 

[Zoots]

They should be out by now, then.

Sorry it was too tempting!

 

[Chizip]

Re: If All that.. is selling out, so is Pop

Selling out to me would be what Metallica did in the 90's where they (at least it looked like that to me, I didn't read any interviews) deliberately changed their looks and softened their sound to get more mainstream.

hmmm sounds like what U2 did after Pop

They softened their sound and went for a more wholesome look.

 

[U2girl]

U2 were influenced by listening to pop music and I think SATS or IGWSHA hint at the "softer" sound.

I don't think the "casual rock star" look they had is selling out. Besides they have a different look for each album/tour.

 

[BVS]

Re: If All that.. is selling out, so is Pop

Selling out to me would be what Metallica did in the 90's where they (at least it looked like that to me, I didn't read any interviews) deliberately changed their looks and softened their sound to get more mainstream.

A lot of die hard metal heads would probably agree with you(and in fact did say that about the black album), to me I thought it was a great evolution, probably the best album they've done.

 

[pepokiss]

I could sell out, make all the millions and stadium concerts... and after having it all. do what I really want...

I already have a fan base... so I'm a genius

 

[Chizip]

U2 were influenced by listening to pop music and I think SATS or IGWSHA hint at the "softer" sound.

I don't think the "casual rock star" look they had is selling out. Besides they have a different look for each album/tour.

Maybe Metallica was influenced by pop music as well?

I don't see how you can say Metallica cleaning up their image and making more radio friendly songs is selling out, while U2 cleaning up their image and making more radio friendly songs isn't selling out.

Kinda seems like they did the same thing to me. And they each were very successful doing it, so was probably a good idea for both.

 

[Irishteen]

I can't believe this thread turned into a U2 selling out argument, I mean that type of talk never happens here

I'm surprised no one has a go at Bono for saying he can't stand listening to their first three albums, I'm pretty sure he thought it sounded good back down but how dare they ever change their opinions, that's totally selling-out!

ATYCLB was one of U2's most experimental albums, when did they do anything like it before? Oh I'm sorry experimental here, is when U2 do something different that you like. I mean doing something different and doing a duet with Mary J. Blige isn't experimental it's selling-out.

 

[snowbunny00774]

I guess we can move this to EYKIW now

 

[U2girl]

Maybe Metallica was influenced by pop music as well?

I don't see how you can say Metallica cleaning up their image and making more radio friendly songs is selling out, while U2 cleaning up their image and making more radio friendly songs isn't selling out.

Kinda seems like they did the same thing to me. And they each were very successful doing it, so was probably a good idea for both.

Like I said, I don't know the interviews or quotes from Metallica in that time. (and as was said, the black album is regarded as one of their best so...) I do remember James Hetfield saying once on TV a fan spat at him on the street when they made a video for MTV and said "you sold out". So I can imagine fans rolling their eyes at the 1991 Metallica - and afterwards sound and look.
If that was honestly what they felt like doing and not a scheme to sell more, though, would that make any difference to the fans that consider that selling out?

I'm saying U2 was listening to pop music and this entered their music, just like dance music entered their sound in the 90s. Just like blues and American music entered their sound on JT and Rattle and Hum. They do care about the critics' opinion (and the "biggest band in the world" ego is involved) so that might have been an extra nudge to make AB after Rattle and Hum backlash and making ATYCLB after Pop backlash, but it was not the basic reason, I think. There was a quote from Howie B stripping down the effects on the Popmart soundchecks and saying that the sound got bigger as he removed any of the loops and such.

They always had an image to suit the music, and they started paying more attention to that with JT, and moreso after - and including - AB. Shades, leather, boots - it's basic rock star wear.

You think there weren't people saying "they only care about the masses now, they sold out" when JT came out? A much more accessible album than the previous 4 U2 albums.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

the second you take money for your craft, you've sold out.

 

[indra]

the second you take money for your craft, you've sold out.

Then I'm in absolutely no danger of ever selling out with my music 'cause it absolutely sucks.

 

[Angela Harlem]

say you were in a nobody band, not making much money at all, but playing the music you wrote and loved, and one night after playing a small crappy bar a record exec bigwig came up to you and said, "we love your image but hate your music, i'm putting together a boyband that the record company is gonna market the hell out of, youll be rich and famous instead of playing these small crappy bars..."

would ya do it?

the prospect of being in a boyband leaves me feeling rather curious.

 

[GibsonGirl]

I'd sell out to begin with, earn a few millions to keep me comfortable, then start fucking with my fans' heads by recording 20 minute epics. Just because I can.

And really, do we HAVE to talk about U2 in B&C?

 

[Zoots]

And really, do we HAVE to talk about U2 in B&C?

I started it. I'll finish it.

Really, Headache is right. The moment you start taking money for your work, you've sold out. So what U2 did in 2000 wasn't really selling out. I don't know what to call it but bad mouthing their own POP album and changing the songs didn't sit well with me. People seem to look at ATYCLB in different ways. Some think it is more radio friendly than POP and therefore made to sell more copies. Some think it's a new direction. Whatever.

 

[U2Man]

whatevs.

 

[pepokiss]

NOT!