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Old 06-22-2002, 05:49 AM   #1
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World Cup fix?

As you know, I would sooner extract my own teeth than support Germany, but I am very much tempted to do a bit of DIY dentistry and back the bratwursters against South Korea on Tuesday.

The reason? Well, I'm not alone in thinking there is something slightly smelly about the Koreans' progress to the semi-finals.

Some favourable decisions you can expect when hosting a major tournament. But the amount of incorrect decisions that have gone Korea's way has beggared belief.

A dodgy penalty against the USA.
A questionable sending-off for Portugal.
A questionable sending-off for Italy.
A questionable offside decision againt Italy.
Two perfectly good goals disallowed for Spain.
A questionable penalty save in the shoot-out.

Korea have indeed been good for the tournament. But among the four best sides in world football? I don't think so. No doubt it will all come out in the wash.

I think we are watching the biggest helping hand to a host nation since Argentina somehow managed to beat Peru 6-0 to reach the 1978 World Cup final!

(Note. Brettig will back me up on any possible replies)
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Old 06-22-2002, 06:20 AM   #2
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I dont know about a fix, but something isnt quite right.

Maybe the penalty save is clutching at straws, although yes, he did seem to be well off his line, but when's the last time that has been called?

Certainly there is something strange going on with the other decisions, especially in the last 16 and the 1/4 finals, as the decision REPEATEDLY went against Italy and Spain. I suppose we'll see in the Germany match. Its just a shame we werent able to see more of Italy and Spain.

In addition to what you pointed out, I thought the players, coach and officials were perhaps a little over-friendly...
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Old 06-22-2002, 06:22 AM   #3
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I don't want to believe it, but there's something to that sequence- either its destiny or its dodgy. The only one I'd dispute is the penalty shootout, moving off the line has been an epidemic in penalties for years.
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Old 06-22-2002, 07:33 AM   #4
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Another thing that confuses me about this situation is that I was under the impression that there was a FIFA directive in place (for quite some time now) that stated the benifit of the doubt should be given to the ATTACKING side.
In virtually all of the controversial decisions its been the defensive side that has benefited, offisde decisions, penalties not awarded, and a spate of disallowed goals.
God knows Korea havent done much attacking in the last 2 games, they mustve had about 1 shot on target today.
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Old 06-22-2002, 09:46 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by cloudimani
Another thing that confuses me about this situation is that I was under the impression that there was a FIFA directive in place (for quite some time now) that stated the benifit of the doubt should be given to the ATTACKING side.
In virtually all of the controversial decisions its been the defensive side that has benefited, offisde decisions, penalties not awarded, and a spate of disallowed goals.
God knows Korea havent done much attacking in the last 2 games, they mustve had about 1 shot on target today.
Its really annoying what is happening, its hard to say if its a fix, or if simply the refs in the korea games, and specially the linesmen, don't have the capacity to work under the pressure of such a noicy crowd, I still want to believe that its mistakes, but is sad that an argument can be done about the hypotetic fix.

Over history all home sides has been "helped" in some way, but I think this is like too much.

About that benefit of doubt, that is true in general in football, but, I heard comments from FIFA executives that for this world cup the linesmen were told, that when in doubt, raise the flag, in fact Blatter said, that is better to disallow a legal goal, than award an illegal one, this change of criteria, no doubt that makes it confusing for linesmen that during the past year work in one way, and suddenly have to change.

By the way bullet, nothing wrong with pulling some teeth, and as a matter of respect, can u refrain from using that kind of adjetives on other countries?
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Old 06-22-2002, 10:34 AM   #6
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Re: World Cup fix?

Quote:
Originally posted by bullet the blue sky

Two perfectly good goals disallowed for Spain.
How can goals be perfect when the defending team and the goalkeeper makes no attempt to save the goal
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Old 06-22-2002, 10:41 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by cloudimani
Italy and Spain.
Italy wouldnt have been in 2nd round if Croats had won their last game and Spain would well have been beaten by Ireland. So refering in NOT ONLY the reason we are not seeing more of Italy and Spain..Brasil could have complained the same about sent off against England.
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Old 06-22-2002, 11:09 AM   #8
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Lets kill all Refs for making mistakes. If the Italians did win against korea with 2 goals from wrong desicions by the referee, no complains from some of you.
And what to do for a referee surounded by players who want to trick him into a mistake.


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Old 06-22-2002, 11:12 AM   #9
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Is true about the mistakes, but some teams just want excuses for their eliminitions. Specially Italians.
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Old 06-22-2002, 11:15 AM   #10
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Well I was all in favour of Korea after they beat Italy, I didn't think there was anything too dodgy about that, the Tomassi effort was very close and unlucky, and the sending off I thought was fine cos Totti did go down easy, was looking for a penalty, and IMO should have got a second yellow.

But after today, hmmmm. When you look at all the incidents Bullet pointed out, it's hard to see anything but a bit of generous refereeing. The first goal disallowed against Spain, was there any explanation given by the ref? I didn't see any great replay.

The 2nd goal, well, sure, the goalie stopped, but would he have saved it anyway? And that's not the case, the decision was wrong, and Spain were beaten unfairly. If you look at the linesman, he waits until the ball is well into the air before he raises the flag. From where he was he obviously couldn't see if the ball was out, but he seemed to wait until it looked as if Spain were gonna score, and once he saw the ball was floating towards 2 Spanish strikers at the far post, he threw up his arm, we wasn't even looking at the ball when it was near the touchline!!! Unless something happened that the rest of the world totally missed!

And the penalty save, well, that was just wrong. Again, the same linesman, and it couldn't have been clearer!!! The keeper jumped 2 or 3 steps off his line before Joaquim hit it! Hello?!?! Anybody there?!

If I was Spanish I'd be sick as a dog.

But you can't change what has happened, and I still hope South Korea beat the boring Germans, but I was really hoping for a Spain V Brazil final.

It has left a bit of a sour taste in the mouth though, and FIFA MUST consider using video evidence during games in future, too many stupid decisions
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Old 06-22-2002, 11:32 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by lazyboy

It has left a bit of a sour taste in the mouth though, and FIFA MUST consider using video evidence during games in future, too many stupid decisions
Agreed but things would be worse if VIDEO evidences are not used in some cases or incorrect judgement is given on VIDEO EVIDENCES..It happens in CRICKET and you cant rule out either..

But I agree games would be more fairer then...I am sick of seeing those DIVES and PLAY ACTING.. and those BAD DECISIONS
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Old 06-22-2002, 11:55 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by lazyboy
It has left a bit of a sour taste in the mouth though, and FIFA MUST consider using video evidence during games in future, too many stupid decisions
I feel they should change the outside rule dramatically since it is a rule that is impossible for referees and lines man to follow up on

same goes for this crazy witch hunt on "Schwalbes"
every player who gets fouled in a penalty area is either booked or gets a penalty, there doesn't seem to be a grey area anymore

if all else fails,
than video evidence it should be

but not until everything else has been given a try
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Old 06-22-2002, 12:04 PM   #13
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Personally I dont think video evidence is the way to go, football isnt really the kind of game where it could work well IMO. I'd prefer to see professional referees and officials, employed by FIFA, who undergo rigourous physical and technical training so they are fit to make correct decisions, and to keep up with the play. One of FIFA's big problems is their inabaility to admit to mistakes or accept that their officials might be less than brilliant at their jobs. FIFAworldcup.com I think shows the way they fail to even recognise controversial decisions.

I'm not really trying to make excuses for Italy, though I am a fan, I also think its a shame that Spain suffered the same fate. I accept Italy shouldve scored more goals, mostly thats down to Vieri who wasted far too many chances in this world cup.
All I want is for both teams to have a fair chance of winning the match, it shouldnt be so much to ask for. I have nothing against S. Korea as I've said, I just think the refereeing decisions have somewhat tainted this world cup.
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Old 06-22-2002, 12:55 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by lazyboy

But you can't change what has happened, and I still hope South Korea beat the boring Germans, but I was really hoping for a Spain V Brazil final.

I will not make a case saying that Germany is exciting to watch, and obviously less the current team. And of course considering the rivalry with the fans from the UK this comments are normal,(I know you are not in the UK, just using the boring comment that has surfaced some times). Germany over the years has been the same, give all and win the way it can be, the diference is that usually it has had a few players that give them the jump in quality to make them the force that has been, like Beckenbauer, Overath, Grabowsky, Mathaus, Rummenige, Seller, Brehme, Klinsman etc.
But I'm sure that Germany has done, this world cup much better than much expected or wanted, is again the total effort always given by Germany, no matter the odds or the limitations of which they are perfectly aware, also in consideration we have to say that Germany arrived to this world cup missing 6 players that were considered first team. Nowotny, Worns, Heinrich, Deisler, Scholl and Zickler. Also I think Ballack is lucky to be still playing, I doubt he is at more than 60%, the bright side is as always Oliver Kahn, and a surpricingly improved defense.
So as I say, I don't make a case for them not being boring, but I think Voeller and his team deserve respect for their achievements so far.
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Old 06-23-2002, 02:23 AM   #15
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Italy - unlucky.
Spain - unlucky.

End of story.
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