World Cup fix?

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As you know, I would sooner extract my own teeth than support Germany, but I am very much tempted to do a bit of DIY dentistry and back the bratwursters against South Korea on Tuesday.

The reason? Well, I'm not alone in thinking there is something slightly smelly about the Koreans' progress to the semi-finals.

Some favourable decisions you can expect when hosting a major tournament. But the amount of incorrect decisions that have gone Korea's way has beggared belief.

A dodgy penalty against the USA.
A questionable sending-off for Portugal.
A questionable sending-off for Italy.
A questionable offside decision againt Italy.
Two perfectly good goals disallowed for Spain.
A questionable penalty save in the shoot-out.

Korea have indeed been good for the tournament. But among the four best sides in world football? I don't think so. No doubt it will all come out in the wash.

I think we are watching the biggest helping hand to a host nation since Argentina somehow managed to beat Peru 6-0 to reach the 1978 World Cup final!

(Note. Brettig will back me up on any possible replies)
 
I dont know about a fix, but something isnt quite right.

Maybe the penalty save is clutching at straws, although yes, he did seem to be well off his line, but when's the last time that has been called?

Certainly there is something strange going on with the other decisions, especially in the last 16 and the 1/4 finals, as the decision REPEATEDLY went against Italy and Spain. I suppose we'll see in the Germany match. Its just a shame we werent able to see more of Italy and Spain.

In addition to what you pointed out, I thought the players, coach and officials were perhaps a little over-friendly...
 
I don't want to believe it, but there's something to that sequence- either its destiny or its dodgy. The only one I'd dispute is the penalty shootout, moving off the line has been an epidemic in penalties for years.
 
Another thing that confuses me about this situation is that I was under the impression that there was a FIFA directive in place (for quite some time now) that stated the benifit of the doubt should be given to the ATTACKING side.
In virtually all of the controversial decisions its been the defensive side that has benefited, offisde decisions, penalties not awarded, and a spate of disallowed goals.
God knows Korea havent done much attacking in the last 2 games, they mustve had about 1 shot on target today.
 
cloudimani said:
Another thing that confuses me about this situation is that I was under the impression that there was a FIFA directive in place (for quite some time now) that stated the benifit of the doubt should be given to the ATTACKING side.
In virtually all of the controversial decisions its been the defensive side that has benefited, offisde decisions, penalties not awarded, and a spate of disallowed goals.
God knows Korea havent done much attacking in the last 2 games, they mustve had about 1 shot on target today.

Its really annoying what is happening, its hard to say if its a fix, or if simply the refs in the korea games, and specially the linesmen, don't have the capacity to work under the pressure of such a noicy crowd, I still want to believe that its mistakes, but is sad that an argument can be done about the hypotetic fix.

Over history all home sides has been "helped" in some way, but I think this is like too much.

About that benefit of doubt, that is true in general in football, but, I heard comments from FIFA executives that for this world cup the linesmen were told, that when in doubt, raise the flag, in fact Blatter said, that is better to disallow a legal goal, than award an illegal one, this change of criteria, no doubt that makes it confusing for linesmen that during the past year work in one way, and suddenly have to change.

By the way bullet, nothing wrong with pulling some teeth, and as a matter of respect, can u refrain from using that kind of adjetives on other countries?
 
Lets kill all Refs for making mistakes. If the Italians did win against korea with 2 goals from wrong desicions by the referee, no complains from some of you.
And what to do for a referee surounded by players who want to trick him into a mistake.
 
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Well I was all in favour of Korea after they beat Italy, I didn't think there was anything too dodgy about that, the Tomassi effort was very close and unlucky, and the sending off I thought was fine cos Totti did go down easy, was looking for a penalty, and IMO should have got a second yellow.

But after today, hmmmm. When you look at all the incidents Bullet pointed out, it's hard to see anything but a bit of generous refereeing. The first goal disallowed against Spain, was there any explanation given by the ref? I didn't see any great replay.

The 2nd goal, well, sure, the goalie stopped, but would he have saved it anyway? And that's not the case, the decision was wrong, and Spain were beaten unfairly. If you look at the linesman, he waits until the ball is well into the air before he raises the flag. From where he was he obviously couldn't see if the ball was out, but he seemed to wait until it looked as if Spain were gonna score, and once he saw the ball was floating towards 2 Spanish strikers at the far post, he threw up his arm, we wasn't even looking at the ball when it was near the touchline!!! Unless something happened that the rest of the world totally missed!

And the penalty save, well, that was just wrong. Again, the same linesman, and it couldn't have been clearer!!! The keeper jumped 2 or 3 steps off his line before Joaquim hit it! Hello?!?! Anybody there?!

If I was Spanish I'd be sick as a dog.

But you can't change what has happened, and I still hope South Korea beat the boring Germans, but I was really hoping for a Spain V Brazil final.

It has left a bit of a sour taste in the mouth though, and FIFA MUST consider using video evidence during games in future, too many stupid decisions
 
lazyboy said:

It has left a bit of a sour taste in the mouth though, and FIFA MUST consider using video evidence during games in future, too many stupid decisions

Agreed but things would be worse if VIDEO evidences are not used in some cases or incorrect judgement is given on VIDEO EVIDENCES..It happens in CRICKET and you cant rule out either..

But I agree games would be more fairer then...I am sick of seeing those DIVES and PLAY ACTING.. and those BAD DECISIONS :drool: :drool:
 
lazyboy said:
It has left a bit of a sour taste in the mouth though, and FIFA MUST consider using video evidence during games in future, too many stupid decisions
I feel they should change the outside rule dramatically since it is a rule that is impossible for referees and lines man to follow up on

same goes for this crazy witch hunt on "Schwalbes"
every player who gets fouled in a penalty area is either booked or gets a penalty, there doesn't seem to be a grey area anymore

if all else fails,
than video evidence it should be

but not until everything else has been given a try
 
Personally I dont think video evidence is the way to go, football isnt really the kind of game where it could work well IMO. I'd prefer to see professional referees and officials, employed by FIFA, who undergo rigourous physical and technical training so they are fit to make correct decisions, and to keep up with the play. One of FIFA's big problems is their inabaility to admit to mistakes or accept that their officials might be less than brilliant at their jobs. FIFAworldcup.com I think shows the way they fail to even recognise controversial decisions.

I'm not really trying to make excuses for Italy, though I am a fan, I also think its a shame that Spain suffered the same fate. I accept Italy shouldve scored more goals, mostly thats down to Vieri who wasted far too many chances in this world cup.
All I want is for both teams to have a fair chance of winning the match, it shouldnt be so much to ask for. I have nothing against S. Korea as I've said, I just think the refereeing decisions have somewhat tainted this world cup.
 
lazyboy said:

But you can't change what has happened, and I still hope South Korea beat the boring Germans, but I was really hoping for a Spain V Brazil final.


I will not make a case saying that Germany is exciting to watch, and obviously less the current team. And of course considering the rivalry with the fans from the UK this comments are normal,(I know you are not in the UK, just using the boring comment that has surfaced some times). Germany over the years has been the same, give all and win the way it can be, the diference is that usually it has had a few players that give them the jump in quality to make them the force that has been, like Beckenbauer, Overath, Grabowsky, Mathaus, Rummenige, Seller, Brehme, Klinsman etc.
But I'm sure that Germany has done, this world cup much better than much expected or wanted, is again the total effort always given by Germany, no matter the odds or the limitations of which they are perfectly aware, also in consideration we have to say that Germany arrived to this world cup missing 6 players that were considered first team. Nowotny, Worns, Heinrich, Deisler, Scholl and Zickler. Also I think Ballack is lucky to be still playing, I doubt he is at more than 60%, the bright side is as always Oliver Kahn, and a surpricingly improved defense.
So as I say, I don't make a case for them not being boring, but I think Voeller and his team deserve respect for their achievements so far.
 
yertle-the-turtle said:
Italy - unlucky.
Spain - unlucky.

Seems like it to me, too.

Keep enjoying the games, folks! The best team will win in the end, and that is Brazil. I'd be gobsmacked indeed if South Korea beat Brazil, even though I am supporting the former.

foray
 
rafmed said:


So as I say, I don't make a case for them not being boring, but I think Voeller and his team deserve respect for their achievements so far.

That's fair enough, but all I am saying is I hope they don't win. The way they play they know they aren't gonna win any fans. I'm sure it's effective, but feck them, I really am putting all my positive energy towards South Korea. All the neutrals(bar u rafo u freak;) ) will be shouting against them
 
I guess I'm neutral but I hope Germany will win, because I suspect they are the better team
 
cloudimani said:
Personally I dont think video evidence is the way to go, football isnt really the kind of game where it could work well IMO. I'd prefer to see professional referees and officials, employed by FIFA, who undergo rigourous physical and technical training so they are fit to make correct decisions, and to keep up with the play. One of FIFA's big problems is their inabaility to admit to mistakes or accept that their officials might be less than brilliant at their jobs. FIFAworldcup.com I think shows the way they fail to even recognise controversial decisions.

I agree with some part of this, but I'm supporting the usage of video evidence. Sometimes the ball runs simply too fast and it's impossible to judge with human eyes. But with the video replay, you can slow it down and view it in different directions or even zoom in to see what exactly has happened. Also, during those controversial moments, usually players and referee would argue for some time anyway, so if you have someone to view the replay immediately won't waste a lot of time. At least, that's better than having wrong decisions! But I agree that having pofessional referees are indeed the ultimate solution. Also, I think it's the time to stop those 'let every country involves' thing. I mean, it's good that they want to be fair. But also they need to be fair to the players. Pick the best referees in the whole world instead of the best referees in each country.

I'll be supporting S. Korea. But if they really win the game, I hope they win because they played better, not because of luck.
 
interesting commentary from the Washington Post.

Blame Club Owners for Europe's Failures
By GEORGE VECSEY


HE conspiracy theories are kicking in about the World Cup ? or, as one e-mail correspondent called it, the Third World Cup.

The fix is in, according to some fans who believe that the world soccer body, FIFA, has favored one of the hosts in this World Cup. (And if so, why South Korea and not Japan?) People in traditional soccer countries, whose teams have already gone down the drain, believe that South Korea is getting a break from the referees, upon orders from the home office in Switzerland.

You can hear those bleats emanating from the European teams that have been left in the dust by the roadrunners from South Korea. Some fans cannot believe that South Korea outhustled and outthought and outlasted their pampered millionaires to reach the semifinal against Germany tomorrow in Seoul, South Korea.

? ? ?

Meanwhile, Turkey has also reached the semifinals for the first time in its history and will play Brazil on Wednesday in the Tokyo suburb of Saitama. While a European country, Turkey has the exotic feel of an outsider, as the first predominately Muslim country to reach a semifinal. Like South Korea, Turkey has played hard, inspired, united soccer.

If anything, the world should be thanking South Korea and Turkey for showing that teamwork and preparation and persistence still count. The attachment to a national soccer team runs extremely deep among fans, however, including the subway alumni of other countries who now live in the United States.

When Italy runs out of psychic gas in the second half, it must be somebody's fault. When Spain chokes on penalty kicks, it must be a plot. When Portugal plays dirty and then mugs the referee over a red card, it's somebody else's fault.

Whatever else the fans want to believe, the concept of FIFA's arranging for a tilt in the direction of South Korea is downright ludicrous. FIFA is the ultimate house divided, even though his majesty Joseph S. Blatter got himself re-elected by cronies around the world (including the United States, which doesn't say a lot for our values).

Blatter has so many enemies under his own roof that if he, or his opponents, tried to fix something, the other side would be waving the transcripts in a heartbeat.

To its credit, FIFA has indeed tried to broaden its base in recent years, opening more spaces in the World Cup for African and Asian teams and insisting on referees from many countries.

In the broad sense, this is good because it cuts down the Eurocentric look to world soccer, although it is fair to say that allowing only one referee from a soccer-rich nation like England or Argentina could cut down on the talent pool and bring in a few lesser officials ("village referees," Christian Vieri of Italy said with a sneer, before he missed a point-blank shot for the winning goal).

No matter how hard FIFA has tried to include all regions of the world, players still have to go out and play hard. Bad or even mediocre teams will give up goals. In this tournament, South Korea has lived up to its slogan, "Korea Team Fighting."

The South Koreans have given Americans a glimpse of old-fashioned teamwork. We are used to watching the richest clubs buy championships ? and not only in college football and basketball either. The Los Angeles Lakers can afford to keep Shaq and Kobe. The Arizona Diamondbacks went out and obtained two great pitchers and won a World Series. The Detroit Red Wings can buy expensive spare parts that win Stanley Cups.

The World Cup has traditionally been a first-world old-boy club. The insolent waltz by West Germany and Austria in a World Cup game in 1982 ("Here's the ball, Hans." "Back to you, Dieter.") kept Algeria out of the next round. That stuff doesn't happen anymore.

Besides, Europe brought this disgrace upon itself by expanding the soccer season to fill the great maw of cable networks around the world. There are preseason tournaments in August, midweek cup games all season and championship games stretching into May.

? ? ?

Want to know why Zidane and Figo and Batigol and Maldini all looked as if they were running in quicksand this past month? Because the European leagues and team owners are greedy. One does not hear Silvio Berlusconi, the Italian prime minister, who also owns A.C. Milan, blaming himself because his captain, Maldini, has aged in dog years. It's money in the cable bank for Berlusconi.

That buffoon who owns the Perugia team had the gall to fire the South Korean glamour-boy striker, Ahn Jung Hwan, after his header eliminated Italy last week. It's a safe bet that owner pockets the swag from the player-killing schedule of Italy's top league.

There's your conspiracy, amici sportivi (sporting friends). European soccer leaders have made money from the dead legs, dead brains and dead national teams. They should bank their Euros, and stop whining when their boys cannot keep up with the South Koreans.
 
The World Cup has traditionally been a first-world old-boy club.

The sentence above, extracted from the article posted by sula got me thinking...so Brasil is more like a black sheep...better saying a green and yellow sheep...better saying a green and yellow sheep that knows how to play football. Beautifully. :D

D?-LHE BRASIL!!! QUE VENHA A TURQUIA...DE NOVO!

:p

Edited: How come one can write an article about World Cup and its participants without mentioning South America? :rolleyes:
 
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they could write articles that last for 50 pages about what's wrong with football in Europe
that still wouldn't change that bad refereeing cost Italy and Spain their matches against South Korea
 
The football season is too long? Yes

The players need at least one month of rest before the World Cup? Yes

Does this has anything to do with bad refeering? No
 
Salome said:
they could write articles that last for 50 pages about what's wrong with football in Europe
that still wouldn't change that bad refereeing cost Italy and Spain their matches against South Korea

It can't be worse than the Olympics.
 
rafmed said:
Does this has anything to do with bad refeering? No
the state of European football indeed has nothing to do with bad refereeing
in those specific matched Italy and Spain did lose because of bad decisions by the referee
 
There's a big difference between bad refs and fixed refs. It seems pretty much like bad losing to insist on the latter even if a case can be made for the former.
 
The greatest thing about a conspiracy theory is that any argument or evidence pleading against the conspiracy theory will be seen as a part of the conspiracy.

Fact is that every World Cup contained a number of errors made by the referee's. The players of the Italian team are just pissed off because this is the first time those errors aren't working to their advantage.

Even if the World Cup is rigged by the FIFA (which I doubt), this doesn't explain why countries like Argentina, Italy, Portugal and France played like crap, and why countries like the USA and South Korea are giving the teams of the more popular (read: arrogant) countries a very very hard time.
 
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