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Old 06-23-2002, 06:44 AM   #16
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Originally posted by yertle-the-turtle
Italy - unlucky.
Spain - unlucky.
Seems like it to me, too.

Keep enjoying the games, folks! The best team will win in the end, and that is Brazil. I'd be gobsmacked indeed if South Korea beat Brazil, even though I am supporting the former.

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Old 06-23-2002, 03:48 PM   #17
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So as I say, I don't make a case for them not being boring, but I think Voeller and his team deserve respect for their achievements so far.
That's fair enough, but all I am saying is I hope they don't win. The way they play they know they aren't gonna win any fans. I'm sure it's effective, but feck them, I really am putting all my positive energy towards South Korea. All the neutrals(bar u rafo u freak ) will be shouting against them
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Old 06-24-2002, 01:33 AM   #18
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I guess I'm neutral but I hope Germany will win, because I suspect they are the better team
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Old 06-24-2002, 03:08 AM   #19
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Originally posted by cloudimani
Personally I dont think video evidence is the way to go, football isnt really the kind of game where it could work well IMO. I'd prefer to see professional referees and officials, employed by FIFA, who undergo rigourous physical and technical training so they are fit to make correct decisions, and to keep up with the play. One of FIFA's big problems is their inabaility to admit to mistakes or accept that their officials might be less than brilliant at their jobs. FIFAworldcup.com I think shows the way they fail to even recognise controversial decisions.
I agree with some part of this, but I'm supporting the usage of video evidence. Sometimes the ball runs simply too fast and it's impossible to judge with human eyes. But with the video replay, you can slow it down and view it in different directions or even zoom in to see what exactly has happened. Also, during those controversial moments, usually players and referee would argue for some time anyway, so if you have someone to view the replay immediately won't waste a lot of time. At least, that's better than having wrong decisions! But I agree that having pofessional referees are indeed the ultimate solution. Also, I think it's the time to stop those 'let every country involves' thing. I mean, it's good that they want to be fair. But also they need to be fair to the players. Pick the best referees in the whole world instead of the best referees in each country.

I'll be supporting S. Korea. But if they really win the game, I hope they win because they played better, not because of luck.
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Old 06-24-2002, 03:20 PM   #20
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interesting commentary from the Washington Post.

Quote:
Blame Club Owners for Europe's Failures
By GEORGE VECSEY


HE conspiracy theories are kicking in about the World Cup — or, as one e-mail correspondent called it, the Third World Cup.

The fix is in, according to some fans who believe that the world soccer body, FIFA, has favored one of the hosts in this World Cup. (And if so, why South Korea and not Japan?) People in traditional soccer countries, whose teams have already gone down the drain, believe that South Korea is getting a break from the referees, upon orders from the home office in Switzerland.

You can hear those bleats emanating from the European teams that have been left in the dust by the roadrunners from South Korea. Some fans cannot believe that South Korea outhustled and outthought and outlasted their pampered millionaires to reach the semifinal against Germany tomorrow in Seoul, South Korea.

• • •

Meanwhile, Turkey has also reached the semifinals for the first time in its history and will play Brazil on Wednesday in the Tokyo suburb of Saitama. While a European country, Turkey has the exotic feel of an outsider, as the first predominately Muslim country to reach a semifinal. Like South Korea, Turkey has played hard, inspired, united soccer.

If anything, the world should be thanking South Korea and Turkey for showing that teamwork and preparation and persistence still count. The attachment to a national soccer team runs extremely deep among fans, however, including the subway alumni of other countries who now live in the United States.

When Italy runs out of psychic gas in the second half, it must be somebody's fault. When Spain chokes on penalty kicks, it must be a plot. When Portugal plays dirty and then mugs the referee over a red card, it's somebody else's fault.

Whatever else the fans want to believe, the concept of FIFA's arranging for a tilt in the direction of South Korea is downright ludicrous. FIFA is the ultimate house divided, even though his majesty Joseph S. Blatter got himself re-elected by cronies around the world (including the United States, which doesn't say a lot for our values).

Blatter has so many enemies under his own roof that if he, or his opponents, tried to fix something, the other side would be waving the transcripts in a heartbeat.

To its credit, FIFA has indeed tried to broaden its base in recent years, opening more spaces in the World Cup for African and Asian teams and insisting on referees from many countries.

In the broad sense, this is good because it cuts down the Eurocentric look to world soccer, although it is fair to say that allowing only one referee from a soccer-rich nation like England or Argentina could cut down on the talent pool and bring in a few lesser officials ("village referees," Christian Vieri of Italy said with a sneer, before he missed a point-blank shot for the winning goal).

No matter how hard FIFA has tried to include all regions of the world, players still have to go out and play hard. Bad or even mediocre teams will give up goals. In this tournament, South Korea has lived up to its slogan, "Korea Team Fighting."

The South Koreans have given Americans a glimpse of old-fashioned teamwork. We are used to watching the richest clubs buy championships — and not only in college football and basketball either. The Los Angeles Lakers can afford to keep Shaq and Kobe. The Arizona Diamondbacks went out and obtained two great pitchers and won a World Series. The Detroit Red Wings can buy expensive spare parts that win Stanley Cups.

The World Cup has traditionally been a first-world old-boy club. The insolent waltz by West Germany and Austria in a World Cup game in 1982 ("Here's the ball, Hans." "Back to you, Dieter.") kept Algeria out of the next round. That stuff doesn't happen anymore.

Besides, Europe brought this disgrace upon itself by expanding the soccer season to fill the great maw of cable networks around the world. There are preseason tournaments in August, midweek cup games all season and championship games stretching into May.

• • •

Want to know why Zidane and Figo and Batigol and Maldini all looked as if they were running in quicksand this past month? Because the European leagues and team owners are greedy. One does not hear Silvio Berlusconi, the Italian prime minister, who also owns A.C. Milan, blaming himself because his captain, Maldini, has aged in dog years. It's money in the cable bank for Berlusconi.

That buffoon who owns the Perugia team had the gall to fire the South Korean glamour-boy striker, Ahn Jung Hwan, after his header eliminated Italy last week. It's a safe bet that owner pockets the swag from the player-killing schedule of Italy's top league.

There's your conspiracy, amici sportivi (sporting friends). European soccer leaders have made money from the dead legs, dead brains and dead national teams. They should bank their Euros, and stop whining when their boys cannot keep up with the South Koreans.
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Old 06-24-2002, 04:41 PM   #21
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The World Cup has traditionally been a first-world old-boy club.

The sentence above, extracted from the article posted by sula got me thinking...so Brasil is more like a black sheep...better saying a green and yellow sheep...better saying a green and yellow sheep that knows how to play football. Beautifully.

DΑ-LHE BRASIL!!! QUE VENHA A TURQUIA...DE NOVO!



Edited: How come one can write an article about World Cup and its participants without mentioning South America?

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Old 06-24-2002, 05:18 PM   #22
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they could write articles that last for 50 pages about what's wrong with football in Europe
that still wouldn't change that bad refereeing cost Italy and Spain their matches against South Korea
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Old 06-24-2002, 07:38 PM   #23
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The football season is too long? Yes

The players need at least one month of rest before the World Cup? Yes

Does this has anything to do with bad refeering? No
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Old 06-24-2002, 10:01 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salome
they could write articles that last for 50 pages about what's wrong with football in Europe
that still wouldn't change that bad refereeing cost Italy and Spain their matches against South Korea
It can't be worse than the Olympics.
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Old 06-25-2002, 06:23 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by rafmed
The football season is too long? Yes

The players need at least one month of rest before the World Cup? Yes

Does this has anything to do with bad refeering? No
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Old 06-25-2002, 12:23 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by rafmed
Does this has anything to do with bad refeering? No
the state of European football indeed has nothing to do with bad refereeing
in those specific matched Italy and Spain did lose because of bad decisions by the referee
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Old 06-25-2002, 12:25 PM   #27
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There's a big difference between bad refs and fixed refs. It seems pretty much like bad losing to insist on the latter even if a case can be made for the former.
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Old 06-25-2002, 12:34 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4
There's a big difference between bad refs and fixed refs.
I agree

who doesn't ?
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Old 06-25-2002, 12:36 PM   #29
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The greatest thing about a conspiracy theory is that any argument or evidence pleading against the conspiracy theory will be seen as a part of the conspiracy.

Fact is that every World Cup contained a number of errors made by the referee's. The players of the Italian team are just pissed off because this is the first time those errors aren't working to their advantage.

Even if the World Cup is rigged by the FIFA (which I doubt), this doesn't explain why countries like Argentina, Italy, Portugal and France played like crap, and why countries like the USA and South Korea are giving the teams of the more popular (read: arrogant) countries a very very hard time.
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