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Old 06-04-2002, 02:49 PM   #31
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What is the fascination with soccer and is it truly the most popular game on earth? Don't get me wrong, it is a nice game and mostly everyone outside of the US seems to love it, butI just dont get it. Although many children play soccer in the US, the sport doesn't get much exposure except for some coverage during the world cup. Maybe we dont like it b/c US is not very good.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated....


PS: does anyone know the track listing for the World Cup Soundtrack? I saw an ad for it on TV and heard that NEW ORDER is one of the bands on it.
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Old 06-04-2002, 03:07 PM   #32
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it most definetely is one of the most popular in the world. this largely stems from various socioeconomic factors around the world. soccer is quite possibly the cheapest sport to recreationally participate in around the world, so that even the poorest nations can excel(a country like, say, equador is on par if not better than the US). i believe it is estimated that half of the worlds population, will in some capacity or another experience these games! half of the worlds population has never even used a telephone!

i wouldn't say that the american team is useless though. to be there you have to qualify and there's only 32 spots. this may not seem like much but keep in mind, virtually every nation takes part internationally in some form.

major league soccer is picking up steam from what i understand.
the american's have poured a relatively large portion of money into their program and have a chance at getting out of their group this year. you should go check out your ny/nj metrostars, MBH the game is quite unlike everything else that american sports fans are used to however so a speedy adoption could not be expected. i say the american men win the world cup sooner rather than later(kind of vague eh)

speaking of which has anyone else read the goldman & sachs report on economics & football? it attempts to draw a correlation between economic wellbeing and world cup success. it's pretty entertaining as it provides both an economic and football history of each competing nation. the conclusion i got from perusing it?
if argentina can win the cup this year, their future will be much brighter than if they don't

[edit]haha, i think asking the tracklisting of the world cup soundtrack is an example of the american level of interest, and possibly quite worrisome for abc[/edit]
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Old 06-04-2002, 03:27 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by kobayashi
it most definetely is one of the most popular in the world. this largely stems from various socioeconomic factors around the world. soccer is quite possibly the cheapest sport to recreationally participate in around the world, so that even the poorest nations can excel(a country like, say, equador is on par if not better than the US). i believe it is estimated that half of the worlds population, will in some capacity or another experience these games! half of the worlds population has never even used a telephone!

i wouldn't say that the american team is useless though. to be there you have to qualify and there's only 32 spots. this may not seem like much but keep in mind, virtually every nation takes part internationally in some form.

major league soccer is picking up steam from what i understand.
the american's have poured a relatively large portion of money into their program and have a chance at getting out of their group this year. you should go check out your ny/nj metrostars, MBH the game is quite unlike everything else that americ

an sports fans are used to however so a speedy adoption could not be expected. i say the american men win the world cup sooner rather than later(kind of vague eh)

speaking of which has anyone else read the goldman & sachs report on economics & football? it attempts to draw a correlation between economic wellbeing and world cup success. it's pretty entertaining as it provides both an economic and football history of each competing nation. the conclusion i got from perusing it?
if argentina can win the cup this year, their future will be much brighter than if they don't

[edit]haha, i think asking the tracklisting of the world cup soundtrack is an example of the american level of interest, and possibly quite worrisome for abc[/edit]

Ha, very funny that I am more concerned with the music than the game!!! I just find soccer boring, that's all.....You know, I cant figure out why more people dont like the wonderful game of hockey(violence probably has something to do w/that). That's just the way it is.

BTW, you seem pretty informative; how old are you? (I tend to ask people this b/c I feel that most U2 fans are older(23+) and it is refreshing to find younger fans, if you are that. Just curious(FYI: I am 24)
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Old 06-04-2002, 03:33 PM   #34
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i am 22.

i can just talk it up
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Old 06-04-2002, 04:35 PM   #35
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I think the lack of interest in the USA may also has to do with cultural reasons, so far I think the interest in USA has grow.

I dunno maybe americans can't concentrate on a sport that is demans their attention for full 45 minutes. They need commercial breaks now and then. JK!

About the soundtrack, I guess in amazon.com you can get the tracklist.

Hockey....what about it? to me, boring, as any sport may be interesting playing, as an expectator I don't like it, and obviousy it can't reach the level of soccer, most of the world has no places to play it. Also I don't think any league (NHL) that uses violence as somthing to attrack audience should be considered as a serious one. I don't know about college hockey I suppose is a better version in this sense.

I agree with the fact that the simplicity of the game makes it appealing to most ppl in the world, that doesn't mean in a profesional level is a simple sport, the strategies and tactics are as complex as those in NFL. The technic required to be a good player can be as hard that of being a .350 hitter.

Yeah American team is not as bad, as one may think, unfortunatelly they had a tough group this time. There are some interesting players, Claudio Reyna, Clint Mathis, to name a few.

They have invested a lot, but I don't think they will reach power level soon, at least not till the interest in the sport grow , so far some of the best athletes of each country chose football ( and I mean real Football) as their sport, that doesn't happen in the USA.

One last thing I think is a shame, USA and Canada don't share this passion that happens around certainly the most popular sport in the world, it would be good that it will happen soon.

And this night we have some intersting games.

*Makes lots of coffee*
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Old 06-04-2002, 05:33 PM   #36
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basically the passion and the spirit and the emotions invoked by football cant be described in words, it is something you must experience to understand. To have a country that has so many problems as doubtless many, if not all of the countries involved have, that its people forget their problems and their differences and unite in support of their team is something so special, something that just doesnt happen in any other sport, not in the Olympics, there is no event to compare it to. there is no feeling like watching your team play well, seeing the ball hit the back of the net, no emotion is like it (few may be better, but lets not get into that )
Even when the country is not your own you can bathe in the atmosphere as I did today when I enjoyed South Korea winning, and thousands and thousands of people uniting in a sea of red and chanting the name of their country, thats something you just dont see anywhere else. The World Cup is as wonderful a spectacle for the neutral as it is for the most die hard fan, it is quite simply a feast of football.
And its not just a matter of national pride, its the joy of the game, the beautiful game.
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Old 06-04-2002, 05:53 PM   #37
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Old 06-04-2002, 06:10 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by rafmed
I think the lack of interest in the USA may also has to do with cultural reasons, so far I think the interest in USA has grow.

I dunno maybe americans can't concentrate on a sport that is demans their attention for full 45 minutes. They need commercial breaks now and then. JK!

About the soundtrack, I guess in amazon.com you can get the tracklist.

Hockey....what about it? to me, boring, as any sport may be interesting playing, as an expectator I don't like it, and obviousy it can't reach the level of soccer, most of the world has no places to play it. Also I don't think any league (NHL) that uses violence as somthing to attrack audience should be considered as a serious one. I don't know about college hockey I suppose is a better version in this sense.

I agree with the fact that the simplicity of the game makes it appealing to most ppl in the world, that doesn't mean in a profesional level is a simple sport, the strategies and tactics are as complex as those in NFL. The technic required to be a good player can be as hard that of being a .350 hitter.

Yeah American team is not as bad, as one may think, unfortunatelly they had a tough group this time. There are some interesting players, Claudio Reyna, Clint Mathis, to name a few.

They have invested a lot, but I don't think they will reach power level soon, at least not till the interest in the sport grow , so far some of the best athletes of each country chose football ( and I mean real Football) as their sport, that doesn't happen in the USA.

One last thing I think is a shame, USA and Canada don't share this passion that happens around certainly the most popular sport in the world, it would be good that it will happen soon.

And this night we have some intersting games.

*Makes lots of coffee*
After reading your comment on soccer technique being as difficult as being a .350 hitter, I think that you have been drinking too much coffee! Soccer is difficult and the conditioning and technique are very demanding; However, hitting a baseball that travels at speeds up to 95+ miles per hour and also moves in different directions is by far the most difficult thing in all of sport; hitting .350 is EXTREMELY difficult; that is why a hitter who bats .300 is considered very good even though he makes out 70% of the time;

Although you make some valid points on hockey, you fail to realize its beauty, grace and fluidity; at its best such as during Olympic competition, it is truly something to behold.
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Old 06-04-2002, 08:11 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by MBH


After reading your comment on soccer technique being as difficult as being a .350 hitter, I think that you have been drinking too much coffee! Soccer is difficult and the conditioning and technique are very demanding; However, hitting a baseball that travels at speeds up to 95+ miles per hour and also moves in different directions is by far the most difficult thing in all of sport; hitting .350 is EXTREMELY difficult; that is why a hitter who bats .300 is considered very good even though he makes out 70% of the time;

Although you make some valid points on hockey, you fail to realize its beauty, grace and fluidity; at its best such as during Olympic competition, it is truly something to behold.
I know what it means hit .350...
That is exactly the point, is DIFICULT! hitting a ball like Zidane Beckham, Roberto Carlos, etc.... is the MOST dificult thing in the world, and about the coffee, drink some, maybe you can awake.

About hockey I refered to the NHL version, Olimpic surelly shows a diferent face.
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Old 06-04-2002, 09:09 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by rafmed
I think the lack of interest in the USA may also has to do with cultural reasons, so far I think the interest in USA has grow.

I dunno maybe americans can't concentrate on a sport that is demans their attention for full 45 minutes. They need commercial breaks now and then. JK!
The supposed lack of commercial appeal of soccer has little to do with why it's not considered a major sport in the US, imho. After all, soccer seems to have attained quite a bit of commercial success in Europe.

Nowadays in America, everyone's kids play soccer. The grass roots support for soccer is there. Pro soccer players won't be as rich as pro football/basketball/baseball players in the US anytime soon, but I think the MLS will manage to stay afloat as long as the kids play and support the sport.


Hockey....what about it? to me, boring, as any sport may be interesting playing, as an expectator I don't like it, and obviousy it can't reach the level of soccer, most of the world has no places to play it. Also I don't think any league (NHL) that uses violence as somthing to attrack audience should be considered as a serious one. I don't know about college hockey I suppose is a better version in this sense.


The NHL does *not* use violence to promote the sport...punishments for rough play have grown exponentially over the last decade or so. (Most fans certainly don't mind fighting, though.)

Violence in the NHL exists for two reasons: 1) some players play dirty, a consequence of a win-at-all-costs mentality, and 2) as a means of frontier justice for combating (1), i.e. if you think someone else on the other team is playing dirty, you send a goon after him. So violence is a symptom of poor sportsmanship in general--something on which hockey certainly does not have exclusive rights.


I agree with the fact that the simplicity of the game makes it appealing to most ppl in the world, that doesn't mean in a profesional level is a simple sport, the strategies and tactics are as complex as those in NFL. The technic required to be a good player can be as hard that of being a .350 hitter.


Soccer is technically much less complex than football--how many soccer teams have 500-page playbooks?

This of course does not mean that it is easier to play soccer at a high level than it is to play football at a comparable level. Football is much more a game of precise execution while soccer is much more a game of improvisation and creativity, and very few people can play either sport at a world-class level.


They have invested a lot, but I don't think they will reach power level soon, at least not till the interest in the sport grow , so far some of the best athletes of each country chose football ( and I mean real Football) as their sport, that doesn't happen in the USA.


As mentioned above, there is plenty of interest in soccer at the youth level. MLS (the US pro league) isn't going to be strong for a while though, simply for economic reasons--not while there are big(ger) bucks to be made in Europe by the top American players.


One last thing I think is a shame, USA and Canada don't share this passion that happens around certainly the most popular sport in the world, it would be good that it will happen soon.


Perhaps. But why isn't a sport like basketball more popular worldwide? Probably because (1) soccer already has a stranglehold on the rest of the world and (2) the US is too damn good at it. Of course, if you tweak the previous two statements in the obvious way, you get two reasons why soccer isn't more popular in the US.
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Old 06-04-2002, 09:43 PM   #41
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I agree mostly with speedracer, just want to make some points, maybe football has no 500 pages playbooks like American one, but it can be as complex to play it, in some ways may be similar, lets say for example a QB reading a defense, or the wide receivers, same kind of reaction are needed in footbal, a defender need to know when he has to cover the place left by a winger that goes upfield or is beaten, the movements in the box during a corner kick can take as much time to be practiced as any defense scheme in American football, and this require a lot of training, and it can't be done by improvisation, maybe that is why USA ppl don't ubderstand it, simply can't see how deep this game can be, I supose that happens to ppl outside the USA that don't understand baseball and American football, if you don't know about it, how can one say its bad?
Improvisation is a part of the game , but maybe one has to get closer to find out the importance of tactics and how it can determine the result, not only the skills and improvisation of players.
In the end I think is a matter of choices.
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Old 06-04-2002, 10:00 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by rafmed
I agree mostly with speedracer, just want to make some points, maybe football has no 500 pages playbooks like American one, but it can be as complex to play it, in some ways may be similar, lets say for example a QB reading a defense, or the wide receivers, same kind of reaction are needed in footbal, a defender need to know when he has to cover the place left by a winger that goes upfield or is beaten, the movements in the box during a corner kick can take as much time to be practiced as any defense scheme in American football, and this require a lot of training, and it can't be done by improvisation, maybe that is why USA ppl don't ubderstand it, simply can't see how deep this game can be, I supose that happens to ppl outside the USA that don't understand baseball and American football, if you don't know about it, how can one say its bad?
Improvisation is a part of the game , but maybe one has to get closer to find out the importance of tactics and how it can determine the result, not only the skills and improvisation of players.
In the end I think is a matter of choices.
Just about everything I know about American football and soccer I learned from TV...maybe our problem is that we don't have TV analysts like rafmed to explain the game to us.
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Old 06-04-2002, 10:38 PM   #43
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The NHL does *not* use violence to promote the sport...punishments for rough play have grown exponentially over the last decade or so. (Most fans certainly don't mind fighting, though.)

Violence in the NHL exists for two reasons: 1) some players play dirty, a consequence of a win-at-all-costs mentality, and 2) as a means of frontier justice for combating (1), i.e. if you think someone else on the other team is playing dirty, you send a goon after him. So violence is a symptom of poor sportsmanship in general--something on which hockey certainly does not have exclusive rights.

fighting and violence is the nhl's dirty little secret. they don't promote it certainly. they are also not suppressing it to the extent you suggest. the game is in a position of reaching new audiences and at such a time the nhl would be foolish to retrieve one of it's unique features.

that is strictly a biz rhetoric and the pervasive mentality of hockey at present is detrimental to the game for sure, but if hockey is to gain a firm foothold in regions like north carolina, georgia and florida there need be as much uniqueness as possible.
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Old 06-04-2002, 11:13 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by kobayashi
it most definetely is one of the most popular in the world. this largely stems from various socioeconomic factors around the world. soccer is quite possibly the cheapest sport to recreationally participate in around the world, so that even the poorest nations can excel(a country like, say, equador is on par if not better than the US). i believe it is estimated that half of the worlds population, will in some capacity or another experience these games! half of the worlds population has never even used a telephone!
What kobayashi said is definitely an important factor, itīs a cheap sport. There is no need of all that gear, you know, like popular American sports demand, and itīs not that harmful and dangerous either. Here in my country a soccer ball is, sometimes, the only toy a poor kid might have. You can see them playing everywhere, even barefeet on the streets or on improvised fields or even on the sea shore. Some of Brazilian best soccer players had a poor childhood, and they started playing that way, with nothing more than the ball and their talent.

Of course itīs not the whole picture, for football or soccer teams here are, most of the time, sucsessful enterprises. I just tried to give a testimony of what was stated by kobayashi.
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Old 06-04-2002, 11:18 PM   #45
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Why is basketball not more popular? You just need a ball and some sort of receptacle to hang on a wall or post or something like that.
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