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Old 02-17-2005, 11:29 AM   #16
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Originally posted by TheFly84138

Whoever said Clement's record meant something must not follow baseball. Last time I checked winning and losing was on the TEAM, especially with the lack of run support he had. Randy Johnson was barely .500, so is he overrated?
Hooboy did you pick a poor example to back up your claim.
First, while winning and losing may be on the team, it falls most on the shoulders of the starting pitcher...there's a reason why pitchers are credited with wins and losses.

Now lets view your Clement and Johnson comparison.
Clement: 9-13, 3.68 ERA 190K 77BB in 181 IP.
Johnson: 16-14, 2.60 ERA 290K 44BB in 245.2 IP.

Now factor in that Clement played on a Cubs team which won 87 games and was 7th in the NL in runs scored with 789 and Johnson played on the worst team in baseball, the D'Backs who won a whopping 53 games and were dead last in runs scored with 615 and your argument is losing a lot of steam.
Johnson is not overrated, Clement is thus far a sub .500 pitcher with mediocre stats outside of strikeouts, an alarming amount of walks issued, and all that in the National League where he has no DH to contend with.

Last time I checked a pitcher's record did mean something in baseball, not too many hall of famers with losing records out there.

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Old 02-18-2005, 06:54 PM   #17
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Haha, right. I don't think I ever did "compare" Clement to Randy Johnson, and FUCK the hall of fame. FUCK pitchers records too. If you want to take that into account when it's a team sport than you might as well believe Sosa hitting 60+ homers in three years means something too. Clement put his team in a position to win every game; 3.68 ERA with 4.06 in run support. Therefore, he put more into it than they did thus his record is not credible.

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