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Old 03-30-2006, 03:59 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by If you shout...


Obviously a joke, my comment was.

Same way that Alex from Clap Your Hands Say Yeah rips off David Byrne's vocal inflections, you know? Except that Coyne Jr. actually IMITATES Coyne Sr., thereby turning my stomach.


Is this another joke? This time with you ripping off Yoda?

Funny, you are posting...
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Old 03-30-2006, 06:39 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by If you shout...


Obviously a joke, my comment was.

Guess it went over my head then.

MY BAD
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Old 03-30-2006, 09:33 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by If you shout...


Obviously a joke, my comment was.

Same way that Alex from Clap Your Hands Say Yeah rips off David Byrne's vocal inflections, you know? Except that Coyne Jr. actually IMITATES Coyne Sr., thereby turning my stomach.
I think you're way off base here, IYS. Clap Your Hands and The Flaming Lips both have a certain amount of irony to their whole presentation, while My Morning Jacket comes off as totally earnest. While I'm sure they know who the Lips are, their influences clearly go back much further. The fact that both are from the South means diddly. Now if you want to say that Jim James is trying to appropriate Neil Young's style, so be it (and I've heard the comparison a lot), but MMJ has nothing in common with the Lips. Ultimately, having (or singing in) a high voice doesn't automatically make you a copycat. And neither Young nor Coyne have reached the soaring vocal heights that James has put to record. He's got fucking pipes, man.

I'll stand by what I said before. I think Wilco is doing much more interesting things musically, but in terms of writing good ol' fashioned rock songs and jamming your socks off, James has the edge. You listen to Golden and tell me if Tweedy has ever written something so timeless and succinctly beautiful (lyrically AND musically).
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Old 03-30-2006, 11:03 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by lazarus
You listen to Golden and tell me if Tweedy has ever written something so timeless and succinctly beautiful (lyrically AND musically).
That is my favorite MMJ song. It's just beautiful.
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Old 03-31-2006, 11:25 AM   #35
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Lazarus, I don't have too much against "Golden" (from what I remember, of course--I systematically purged the band's catalogue from my brain so as to avoid dementia, et al.), but I guess I could confidently say that plenty of Wilco songs stand up against it, most of them brutally crushing the song, stringing out its entrails, and leaving it all in their magnificent, titanic, collective wake.

And while I'm not here just to rip on the band (honestly--it's just that I hate 'em, whether or not that makes you hate me, too, everybody), I'll still say that I prefer Wilco and leave it at that. I don't want to hijack the thread and makes things sketchy for all, because I HATE it when that shit happens.

I'll just close by saying that this is why My Morning Jacket sucks fucking ass:

"A kitten on fire, a baby in a blender--
both sound as sweet
as a night of surrender."

I mean, there's stupid and there's ironic...and then there's embarrassing. Here, students, we find a glaring example of the latter.
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Old 03-31-2006, 01:05 PM   #36
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believe it or not, as much as I love Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, I never fail to roll my eyes and groan at
"I am an American aquarium drinker/I assassin down the avenue". but I imagine many people lap that shit up and call it genius. It sure as hell ain't Dylan. Perhaps not as childish nonsense as the MMJ you posted (way to judge a band by one of their worst lyrics and songs from a less-than-definitive album), but contrived gibberish of an equally phony sort.

And I love how you give "Golden" some kind of pity pass despite the fact you admit you don't completely remember it, then go on to mention the quantity of Wilco songs which fit the criteria I laid down, yet fail to name even one.

So you're a big fan, right?
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Old 03-31-2006, 01:16 PM   #37
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Let's all listen to 'Sunken Treasure'
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Old 03-31-2006, 02:11 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by inmyplace13
Let's all listen to 'Sunken Treasure'
That is a damned fine idea. Damned fine.

Laz:

I wasn't trying to give "Golden" a pity pass, as you said. Even so, looking back on my rushed remarks, I guess it's fair for you or anybody else to have assumed so. What I'm saying is that I've heard the song and that I like it well enough (I've now listened to it several times, just to make sure), but that I do think that Wilco songs (many of them) are far better. Is "I am Trying to Break Your Heart" less lyrically concise and timeless than "Golden"? Well, I don't think that lyrical conciseness is necessarily a good or a bad thing--you invoke Dylan, whose best verse (for me, at least) is rambling and free-associative and ostensibly anti-concise. "Visions of Johanna" would be my favorite example of this.

Timelessness, of course, is not only inquantifiable, but it is also illusory. Not a single thing can be said to be timeless, since the idea is so abstract and immeasurable as to be a ficiton. None of us, at any rate, will ever know if either band is or will be timeless. I'm willing to bet, though, that neither band nor song will be. In 250 years, The Beatles will no longer be "timeless" since they never really were nor could they ever be. C'est la vie.

So, musically and lyrically, I'm not sure I can think of Wilco songs which work in the same (effective, mind you) way that "Golden" does. It's like comparing apples (Wilco) to oranges (MMJ)--we can't judge one singularly for being like or unlike the other, necessarily, but we can definitely prefer one over the other. I prefer Wilco (and apples), and while the songs may not be as lyrically or musically succint, I think that Wilco songs such as "Candyfloss", "Reservations", "I am Trying to Break Your Heart", "Ashes of American Flags", "Misunderstood", "She's a Jar", "Sunken Treasure", and even the listenable portion of "Less Than You Think" are more beautiful and powerful than is "Golden".

And, yeah--I was trying to be a dick by citing those shady-as-poo MMJ lyrics. 'Twas all meant in good fun. Bottom line, I took a few lines from one song to sum up my hatred of the band just as you took a scant two lines from a Wilco song to "prove" that Tweedy isn't Dylan. Of course he isn't, though. He's Jeff Tweedy, for fuck's sake! I guess I don't hear a lot of effort to become (like) Dylan, whereas I rightly or wrongly DO see Coyne Jr. trying. Am I right? I dunno. All I know is that I think I am and that that's good enough for me. It comes across as cloying and laughably shallow, when I listen(ed) to the band. Likewise, it's fine for anybody else to like that jazz if he or she wants to. I think you made good and succint points of your own as to why you prefer MMJ, and that's cool with me. All that matters is that you know why you prefer it, and you do. You're responsible with your opinion, so I'm down. Even though I simply cannot bring myself to agree. At all.

Sorry for the longness. This is why I was brief and potentially vague. Most people don't wanna read this stuff, and they think (once I've written it) that I'm an asshole for thinking about things in more detail than they do, you know? Either way, thanks for asking, because it is nice to spit my speak, every now and again.

And for the record, I also think I find your anti-Tweedyism (at least, I think that's what it is...I could be wrong) falls on sort-of-deaf ears (pun intended) because I don't think that Tweedy was the most important component of the Wilco I loved unconditionally (ie, Being There to Yankee Hotel Foxtrot)--it was Jay Bennett. I am as indifferent towards A.M. as hateful as I am towards (most of) MMJ's catalogue. And I think that A Ghost is Born is patchy, unfocused, and less than the sum total of its oftentimes brilliant parts. I don't love Tweedy. I love Wilco and Bennett.

And, yeah--I ain't got nothin' 'gainst Mr. O'Rourke, neither.
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Old 03-31-2006, 02:12 PM   #39
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I never got into MMJ so I'd have to say Wilco, though I only have a couple of their albums. I prefer Okkervil River to the both of them.
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Old 03-31-2006, 02:40 PM   #40
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I am mystified by the hostility in here. Whether one prefers one or the other, I can't see that either are worthy of hatred.

Another good thread gone down the tubes.
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Old 03-31-2006, 07:39 PM   #41
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IYS, I knew if prodded you would give me the in-depth music criticism I've come to expect. Of course, when I throw out hyperbolic terms like "timeless", I'm asking for it, but I think you know what I was saying. Don't get me wrong--I'll take a handful of Wilco songs over the best that MMJ has to offer--my point was that Jim James is a high-calibre songwriter in a very classic tradition, and has fashioned on several occasions what to my ears sound practically like standards. I think Wilco's best work isn't as accessible to the uninitiated ear, and that's fine.

We are, as you said, comparing apples to oranges. My stated preference at the start of this thread was split in that I admire the strengths of the two bands in different ways. In the end, I'd part with my MMJ collection before Wilco's.

Lastly, while I agree with you in a big way about the Bennett influence, and that A Ghost is Born is patchy compared to its predecessor, I prefer its highpoints a lot more than YHF's. Perhaps it's the noise guitar stuff--I'm a sucker for that shit. O'Rourke can stay as far as I'm concerned.

Joyful Girl: Don't seem so despondent. We can disagree with brio and still keep things from spilling over into name-calling. I don't participate in these threads to get everyone over onto my side.

Yes, listening to Sunken Treasure sounds good to me too.
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Old 04-01-2006, 01:08 AM   #42
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Thanks for listening, Laz. Seriously, it means a lot, and I hope you know that in this thread and others, I'm always listening to what you have to say.

I guess I just want to ask you (and, in turn, anybody else who may want to comment) this: you said earlier that you prefer Jimbo's voice to Jeffrey's...but why? How? WTF? Etc...?

I was also being hyperbolic in my attacks at James's voice, but the thrust still stands--I find his affectation to be not only grating, but nauseating. And bear in mind that I listen to and love Xiu Xiu. Could you or anybody else shed some light on this, if and only if you agree that Jimbo is the superior singer? (I'm not saying that Tweedy's gonna set the Thames on fire or something, but you know...I don't think he sucks, at least...)
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Old 04-01-2006, 03:58 AM   #43
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Tweedy has a complete lack of vocal style that just doesn't do anything for me. He almost seems like he was made lead singer by default. I feel that any of the other guys in the band could sing and it wouldn't make a damned bit of difference. It's inoffensive, and I can see by contrast how Jim James would send many running for the hills, but at least there's personality in the latter. Tweedy just seems like he's just reading his ramblings to a tune. I wouldn't say he sucks but his voice not really one of the weapons in Wilco's arsenal, and not one of the reasons I like the band.

By contrast, Conor Oberst has a very distinctive voice, but I find it so grating and awkward that it totally prevents me from listening to Bright Eyes. Which is sad, because I find some of the songs to be very well written. He is possibly the most annoying vocalist I've ever heard.
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Old 04-01-2006, 06:11 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl
I am mystified by the hostility in here. Whether one prefers one or the other, I can't see that either are worthy of hatred.

Another good thread gone down the tubes.
No no no, it was supposed to be a fight.

We have to have a thread for the new smilie.

Looks as if this one if finally living up to it's potential. Yay!!

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Old 04-02-2006, 12:45 AM   #45
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Better band? I'll keep it short:
WILCO WILCO WILCO
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