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Old 12-09-2006, 10:52 AM   #376
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checking back the past few years, his ERA+'s are 109, 111, 174, 108

so he's had 3 slightly above average years, and 1 monster steroid induced fluke year. now he is a year older and moving back to the AL East?

the Yankees will be getting 2 years of sliiightly above league average pitching for 32 million bucks
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Old 12-09-2006, 11:07 AM   #377
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now lets all laugh at the Cubs for signing Jason Marquis

hahahahahahahahahahahaaaahhahahahah
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

thats the best news of the off season so far

hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaha
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Old 12-09-2006, 01:15 PM   #378
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what a ridiculous contract they gave him.


i can throw 86 mph give or take 2 -4 on a good or bad day, my curveball has decent bite and i have a changeup that i can throw. i also hit .440 for legion last year. what do you think im worth? i gotta be worth at least 5 million in this market.
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Old 12-09-2006, 01:31 PM   #379
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chizip
checking back the past few years, his ERA+'s are 109, 111, 174, 108

so he's had 3 slightly above average years, and 1 monster steroid induced fluke year. now he is a year older and moving back to the AL East?

the Yankees will be getting 2 years of sliiightly above league average pitching for 32 million bucks
again... compared to the ridiculous contracts given out thus far this off season, 16 million for a lefty who averages 17 wins a season and is a proven post-season performer is a bargin.

in reality pettitte should only get 10-11 million per... but when the likes of ted lily and gil meche are getting 11+ per, 16 for pettitte is a steal.

and it's not a 2 year deal... it's a one year contract with a player option. and he even gave houston the opportunity to resign him for 14 million, 2 million less than what new york was offering, but houston, who gave 100+ million to an overweight outfielder, didn't want to spend more than 12 on pettitte. when gil meche is getting 11, ya ain't getting andy pettitte for 12.
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Old 12-10-2006, 12:26 PM   #380
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It's absolutely out of control. They will end up having to place a strict salary cap like the NHL, and in the relatively near future.
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Old 12-10-2006, 12:34 PM   #381
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again... compared to the ridiculous contracts given out thus far this off season, 16 million for a lefty who averages 17 wins a season and is a proven post-season performer is a bargin.

Well we'll have to disagree. He was 14-13 with Houston last year with a 4.20 ERA. For 4 months he was just awful, with a 5.18 ERA going into August. He had a 4.26 ERA in the postseason with the Astros, and his career postseason ERA is 4.08. He's proven to be pretty average in the postseason.

He is now a year older and going back to the AL east where he will post an ERA closer to 5.00 than 4.00. I just don't see 16 million for that as a "bargain."
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Old 12-11-2006, 09:49 AM   #382
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maquis, 7 mil per year for 3 years......an era over 6.00

Jose Lima should be making 8 mil a year
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Old 12-11-2006, 09:58 AM   #383
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maquis, 7 mil per year for 3 years......an era over 6.00

Jose Lima should be making 8 mil a year
Marquis had a terrible year last year, but the 2 years before that he had an ERA of 3.71 and 4.13. supposedly he has worked with someone to correct what went wrong last year.

I think he'll probably put up about a 4.50 ERA this year, about the same as Pettitte, for 9 million dollars less.
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Old 12-11-2006, 11:12 AM   #384
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It's absolutely out of control. They will end up having to place a strict salary cap like the NHL, and in the relatively near future.
never in a million years. the mlb players union is too strong. they won't allow it.
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Old 12-11-2006, 11:29 AM   #385
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I think he'll probably put up about a 4.50 ERA this year
what's sad, is that a 4.50 ERA is considered pretty decent nowadays.
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Old 12-11-2006, 12:49 PM   #386
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Well we'll have to disagree. He was 14-13 with Houston last year with a 4.20 ERA. For 4 months he was just awful, with a 5.18 ERA going into August. He had a 4.26 ERA in the postseason with the Astros, and his career postseason ERA is 4.08. He's proven to be pretty average in the postseason.

He is now a year older and going back to the AL east where he will post an ERA closer to 5.00 than 4.00. I just don't see 16 million for that as a "bargain."
works for me, but i have to address the "pretty average in the postseason" comment.

switching sports for a sec to try to prove a point...

two quarterbacks since 2003 have put up these stats in the playoffs...
QB1- 1903 passing yards, 14 TDs, 6 INTs
QB2- 1921 passing yards, 14 TDs, 4 INTs

one of these quarterbacks is considered to be one of the most clutch post-season performers in the history of the game, and the other is considered to be a complete choke artist.

when deciding wether or not a guy is clutch when it counts, stats can be very decieving. after all, two years ago a-rod had more game winning RBIs than david ortiz... but anyone who said a-rod was more clutch than ortiz is out of their mind.

andy pettitte has thrown some classic october games on the biggest stage in all of baseball. the guy has been money, and the yankees have lost three out of their 4 playoff series' since pettitte and clemens left the team... they won 18 of 24 with him in the rotation, with andy himself compiling a 14-9 post-season record (which included being named the 2001 ALCS MVP).

he has not been average in the post-season... he has, for the most part, been very good. one of the all time great post-season performers? no... he's not even on the level of a guy like smoltz. but his teams win, and he's been a big part of it.
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Old 12-11-2006, 01:07 PM   #387
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Since 2000 he has had 1 good postseason performance:

2005 - 4 GS 1-1 4.26 ERA
2003 - 5 GS 3-1 2.10 ERA
2002 - 1 GS 0-0 12.00 ERA
2001 - 5 GS 2-3 4.55 ERA

And even bad pitchers can get hot and have a good postseason run (see Jeff Weaver)

You're not getting the Andy Pettitte of his prime, so you can't assume he'll be money in the playoffs, as we clearly see, he hasn't been lately.
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Old 12-11-2006, 02:01 PM   #388
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chizip
Since 2000 he has had 1 good postseason performance:

2005 - 4 GS 1-1 4.26 ERA
2003 - 5 GS 3-1 2.10 ERA
2002 - 1 GS 0-0 12.00 ERA
2001 - 5 GS 2-3 4.55 ERA

And even bad pitchers can get hot and have a good postseason run (see Jeff Weaver)

You're not getting the Andy Pettitte of his prime, so you can't assume he'll be money in the playoffs, as we clearly see, he hasn't been lately.
so in 2001 when he was named the ALCS MVP, that wasn't a good performance?

he was 0-1 in the ALDS, and in that one loss he gave up 1 run in 6 and 1/3 innings... he was 2-0 with a 2.51 era in the ALCS and was the series MVP... in the world series he lost twice to randy johnson. the first loss he pitched 6 innings with only giving up a run before arizona finally broke through with 3 in the 7th in a game where torre probably left him in too long. in the second loss he got smacked around, enflating up his overall ERA.

again... stats, esp. overall stats, can be very decieving.
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Old 12-11-2006, 02:06 PM   #389
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meh, 2001 is still a long time ago

I'd take Suppan (career postseason ERA 3.00) at 12 million over Pettitte at 16 million in a heartbeat, and the thought of Suppan at 12 million makes me shudder.
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Old 12-11-2006, 02:13 PM   #390
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the "poor" post-season of 2005 wasn't very long ago..

--ALDS Game 1 vs. Atlanta - Pettitte W(1-0)- 7ip, 4 hits, 3 runs, 2 walks, 6 Ks (left game with 5-3 lead, astros won 10-5)
--NLCS Game 1 vs. St. Louis Pettitte L(0-1)- 6ip, 8 hits, 5 runs, 2 walks, 2 Ks (left game losing 4-0, st. louis wins 5-3)
--NLCS Game 5 vs. St. Louis - Pettitte No Dec Pettitte- 6.1 ip, 7 hits, 2 runs, 2 walks, 4 Ks (left game trailing 2-1, st. louis wins 5-4)
--World Series game 2 vs. White Sox - Pettite No De - 6ip, 8 hits, 2 runs, 2 walks, 4 Ks (left game with 4-2 lead, white sox win 7-6, lidge loss)

he really only had one poorly pitched game out of 4, which inflated the ERA.

so of the 4 post-seasons you post, the only year in which he pitched poorly was the year in which he only played one game.
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