phillyfan26
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Headache in a Suitcase said:
But there's no way that they will be able to handle the contracts much past this point, so something's gotta give.
I can't think of another way out.
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But there's no way that they will be able to handle the contracts much past this point, so something's gotta give.
I can't think of another way out.
randhail
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Headache in a Suitcase said:
Completely agree. This is the same union that was willing to sacrifice the World Series. You don't mess with the MLBPA's money.
I think this year and possible the next couple years could have crazy money being spent, but then calm down again when the "bills become due" so to speak. The money will again return to a less crazy state for a couple years while teams try to recoup their money. It's a cyclical thing - which won't change anytime soon unless something catastrophic happens like multiple teams going bankrupt.
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My 2 cents worth:
1) I'd rather have Pettitte than Marquis or Suppan or Lilly, $$$ aside. My only worry with Pettitte is his health. He pitched 210 innings + the past 2 years, so, hopefully that trend can continue. I'll take a guy with an 18-6 post-season record any day, and a 4.08 post-season ERA might not be stellar, but, he wins big games (yeah, he loses some too). Simply would rather overpay for him than overpay for the others. We'll see how it works out....I just know I'm happy to have him back in the fold, even if it's for the one year. And, remember, part of that 16mill is buying the right to negotiate with Clemens on stronger terms than last year.
2) There's not going to be any hard salary cap in MLB. Not today, not tomorrow and as Headache says, not in a million years. As Randhail says, it's cyclical....things should calm down in a year or two...then a few years after that, you'll have another off-season like this one.
3) I have not read all the posts in this thread, so, not sure if there was a reaction to Carlos Lee's deal. To me, that's the worst deal of the bunch. Had the domino effect of Houston losing Pettitte and possibly Clemens, not to mention that they're paying Lee A LOT of $$$, more than he's worth. Not sure if this or the Soriano deal is worse....they're all bad. Schmidt's deal seemed to be the best signing to me. Again, we'll see.
Hawaii was awesome.
1) I'd rather have Pettitte than Marquis or Suppan or Lilly, $$$ aside. My only worry with Pettitte is his health. He pitched 210 innings + the past 2 years, so, hopefully that trend can continue. I'll take a guy with an 18-6 post-season record any day, and a 4.08 post-season ERA might not be stellar, but, he wins big games (yeah, he loses some too). Simply would rather overpay for him than overpay for the others. We'll see how it works out....I just know I'm happy to have him back in the fold, even if it's for the one year. And, remember, part of that 16mill is buying the right to negotiate with Clemens on stronger terms than last year.
2) There's not going to be any hard salary cap in MLB. Not today, not tomorrow and as Headache says, not in a million years. As Randhail says, it's cyclical....things should calm down in a year or two...then a few years after that, you'll have another off-season like this one.
3) I have not read all the posts in this thread, so, not sure if there was a reaction to Carlos Lee's deal. To me, that's the worst deal of the bunch. Had the domino effect of Houston losing Pettitte and possibly Clemens, not to mention that they're paying Lee A LOT of $$$, more than he's worth. Not sure if this or the Soriano deal is worse....they're all bad. Schmidt's deal seemed to be the best signing to me. Again, we'll see.
Hawaii was awesome.
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
Scmidt's deal looked the most suspect of all the big signings to me.No spoken words said:
16 Mil a year for a pitcher who is already breaking down.
Did you bring me back one of those beautiful U2 and Pearl Jam posters from the show?
in the late 90s ya had the a-rod deal for 25 per, jeter and manny got 19 per, kevin brown got his ridiculous contract, mo vaughn... mo friggin vaughn... was getting 19 per... nomar passed up a 16 per deal because he thought he was getting low balled. denny nagle got like 10 million a year from colorado, and mike hampton got a 100+ million dollar contract from the rockies, too 
the owners all spent this ridculous money, overpaying when they didn't need to... why? why not. then they all realized that they spent waaaaay too much money and spent the next few years trying to dump salary, and low balling free agents. let's remember that vlad guerrero wasn't worth 70 million gauranteed to the mets just a few years ago... i'm sure today they'd consider it a bargin.
attendance has been up, revenue sharing has put 100s of millions of dollars into the pockets of small market teams, and now, instead of learning their lessons and being fiscaly responsible, they're spending like college students with their first credit cards. and in a few years when the debt comes in, they'll cut back again, dump all these ridiculous contracts to the big market teams, complain about how they can't compete and then start low balling salaries again.
it's a wonderfuly fucked up circle.
a salary cap combined with a salary minimum would be great for the game... but it'll never happen. no one's ever broken the MLBPA. they're considered by most experts to be the strongest union in america that isn't affiliated with the AFL-CIO. there isn't a union in the world with the amount of wealth that the MLBPA has. the only team they've ever lost anything was when congress threatened to step in regarding the steroid issue, and i highly doubt congress will step in to implement a salary cap.
the owners all spent this ridculous money, overpaying when they didn't need to... why? why not. then they all realized that they spent waaaaay too much money and spent the next few years trying to dump salary, and low balling free agents. let's remember that vlad guerrero wasn't worth 70 million gauranteed to the mets just a few years ago... i'm sure today they'd consider it a bargin.
attendance has been up, revenue sharing has put 100s of millions of dollars into the pockets of small market teams, and now, instead of learning their lessons and being fiscaly responsible, they're spending like college students with their first credit cards. and in a few years when the debt comes in, they'll cut back again, dump all these ridiculous contracts to the big market teams, complain about how they can't compete and then start low balling salaries again.
it's a wonderfuly fucked up circle.
a salary cap combined with a salary minimum would be great for the game... but it'll never happen. no one's ever broken the MLBPA. they're considered by most experts to be the strongest union in america that isn't affiliated with the AFL-CIO. there isn't a union in the world with the amount of wealth that the MLBPA has. the only team they've ever lost anything was when congress threatened to step in regarding the steroid issue, and i highly doubt congress will step in to implement a salary cap.
Numb1075
ONE love, blood, life
Lee is way overpaid, he's pretty one dimensional. But, having said that, playing 81 games w/ that short porch in left field, he'll hit some pop ups and homer. I think if healthy, he's a lock for 40+ dingers
Numb1075
ONE love, blood, life
Texas signed Gagne.....1 yr, 8 million
i heard texas also traded for iverson
Numb1075
ONE love, blood, life
texas has become a major player in recent years trying to get big time free agents.
MrPryck2U
ONE love, blood, life
As far as these bloated contracts to mediocre, the owners only have themselves to blame. The Texas Rangers are a joke of a franchise! If they cared about winning, they'd still have A-rod! They'd also still have Showalter as manager. He and A-rod didn't get along, but Texas should have given it a shot. Their fans deserve better.
i used to say they shouldn't have signed a-rod and instead used that money on multiple players, but after seeing the "multiple players' they're signing this off-season, i'm not so sure about that theory anymore.
and firing showalter was not a bad move... it assures them as being the odds on karma favorites to win the world series.
and firing showalter was not a bad move... it assures them as being the odds on karma favorites to win the world series.
Numb1075
ONE love, blood, life
that's kind of like the NBA fluke thing.
Up until like 3-4 years ago, like 10 consecutive NBA champs had either Robert Horry or Steve Kerr
1994-2003
Up until like 3-4 years ago, like 10 consecutive NBA champs had either Robert Horry or Steve Kerr
1994-2003
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randhail
Rock n' Roll Doggie
MrPryck2U said:
Arod and winning - there's something you don't hear many people talk about.
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phanan
Blue Crack Addict
Definitely not in the same sentence.
MrPryck2U said:
Which is why the team has got better since he was traded.
The first three are the years of the Alex Era. The team has been well over or hovering near .500 since. While nothing to brag about, it's certainly an improvement and a hell of a lot better than finishing in the cellar each year. Playing in a division with two of the AL's best doesn't help their cause.
In any case, I don't know about some of these signings, but I'll support the team through thick and thin. I think Jon Daniels is going to be a good GM for years to come and I like that he has the balls to make moves. In the long run, I hope he can offset Tom Hicks' unmitigated douchebaggery.
I wish Cuban would buy the team.
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MrPryck2U
ONE love, blood, life
I half agree with you. The Rangers put all of their apples in one basket when they signed Alex. But, they needed a more balanced team. After Alex left, they tried to have a balanced team with some success, but not enough. They canned Showalter, who might be a dick, bit he knows baseball. Maybe the Rangers firing Showlater was a good thing. Afterall, the two other teams he managed (Yanks and D-Backs) won the World Series the season after he left.
I didn't like firing Buck, but I think Washington is going to be a good, competent manager and I hear he's an extremely intelligent baseball man.
I live Rangers baseball (and a sorry life it is, sometimes) from April to September each year, so I'm well aware of their problems. I think Lofton was a poor choice as a gap filler since GMJ left, but if Gagne can avoid injury, I think he and Aki make a great one-two punch at the end of the bullpen.
The offense can survive without a GMJ, who was overpaid by the Los Angeles Angels of Planet Earth anyway. I also like the addition of an old Rangers favorite, Frank Cattalanotto. The old problems are going to be there, as always, but I think things are getting slightly better. I don't like Vicente Padilla personally, but after the year he put together last year, I'm glad to keep him around. As lackluster as that year was relative to the rest of the league, it was a good year for a Rangers pitcher. I honestly think the Rangers will make the playoffs in the next four seasons.
I live Rangers baseball (and a sorry life it is, sometimes) from April to September each year, so I'm well aware of their problems. I think Lofton was a poor choice as a gap filler since GMJ left, but if Gagne can avoid injury, I think he and Aki make a great one-two punch at the end of the bullpen.
The offense can survive without a GMJ, who was overpaid by the Los Angeles Angels of Planet Earth anyway. I also like the addition of an old Rangers favorite, Frank Cattalanotto. The old problems are going to be there, as always, but I think things are getting slightly better. I don't like Vicente Padilla personally, but after the year he put together last year, I'm glad to keep him around. As lackluster as that year was relative to the rest of the league, it was a good year for a Rangers pitcher. I honestly think the Rangers will make the playoffs in the next four seasons.
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phanan
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Apparently Matsuzaka is on a plane to Boston - I guess a deal has happened now.
Hewson
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MrPryck2U
ONE love, blood, life
It's not done yet. The BoSox have until tomorrow.
Hewson
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Yeah he's probably flying to Boston to sample our world famous sushi.
Or look for a job as a hibachi chef at Bisuteki.
Or look for a job as a hibachi chef at Bisuteki.
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phanan
Blue Crack Addict
Unconfirmed reports have the deal at $52 million for six years.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/12/13/matsuzaka.signs/index.html?cnn=yes
So factor in the $51.1 million bid, and it comes out to a little over $17 million a year.
As crazy as that seems, if he ends up being the pitcher everyone says he is, that could be a steal in this market.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/12/13/matsuzaka.signs/index.html?cnn=yes
So factor in the $51.1 million bid, and it comes out to a little over $17 million a year.
As crazy as that seems, if he ends up being the pitcher everyone says he is, that could be a steal in this market.
MrPryck2U
ONE love, blood, life
When Matsuzaka appears at a press conference announcing the signing, that's when the deal is done.
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
If its 52 mil for 6 years, Matsuzaka basically told Bor-ass to shut up and get him a deal, casue no way Boras settles for his commission on only $9mil or so a year for this guy.
So if (big if) this is accurate, Sox have a rotation of:
Schilling at $14 mil
Beckett at $10 mil
Matsuzaka at $8.67 mil
Wakefield at $4mil
Papelbon at $450K
And Jason Schmidt is getting almost $16mil a year.
So if (big if) this is accurate, Sox have a rotation of:
Schilling at $14 mil
Beckett at $10 mil
Matsuzaka at $8.67 mil
Wakefield at $4mil
Papelbon at $450K
And Jason Schmidt is getting almost $16mil a year.
Hewson
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Gotta keep those pinstriped hopes alive as long as possible.MrPryck2U said:
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I like the Schmidt deal because it's only a 3 year contract, which right now is amazingly short, and, because despite the health issues, he's averaged over 200 innings a year for the past 5 years.
As for Matsuzaka, cannot wait to see him pitch. I hate the Red Sox like I have set list whiners
but there will be a buzz for his first few starts, at least. And, as you guys know, the Sox did not pay that sort of $$$ just for a pitcher, they paid it to open up the Asian market for Red Sox baseball. Should be interesting.
As for the Rangers, someone wake me when they assemble a rotation. I remember when the Yankees played them in 98 and 99 in the ALDS. Swept them both times, and, gave up one run combined in each series. This was a Rangers team with a lot of offense (they scored over 900 runs each season), but not a lot of pitching. Those were great Yankee staffs, so, of course, the Rangers failed. Now, they start spending on Gagne, Padilla, 2 guys with arm trouble history (yes, Padilla had a good year last year, I know, but he's never once tossed more than 208 innings)...and they add Lofton. Not convinced these are smart moves, and if Schmidt is bad a 3 at 16 per, how is Padilla good at 3 for 11 per? But, that's what makes the Hot Stove fun, debating things like this. I just have no faith in the Texas organization.
I hate A-Rod, just thought I'd toss that in there. Every day I hope that the Yanks will deal him, but, if the Cubs have not gobbled him up via a deal yet, who the hell will??? Nobody.
As for Matsuzaka, cannot wait to see him pitch. I hate the Red Sox like I have set list whiners
but there will be a buzz for his first few starts, at least. And, as you guys know, the Sox did not pay that sort of $$$ just for a pitcher, they paid it to open up the Asian market for Red Sox baseball. Should be interesting.As for the Rangers, someone wake me when they assemble a rotation. I remember when the Yankees played them in 98 and 99 in the ALDS. Swept them both times, and, gave up one run combined in each series. This was a Rangers team with a lot of offense (they scored over 900 runs each season), but not a lot of pitching. Those were great Yankee staffs, so, of course, the Rangers failed. Now, they start spending on Gagne, Padilla, 2 guys with arm trouble history (yes, Padilla had a good year last year, I know, but he's never once tossed more than 208 innings)...and they add Lofton. Not convinced these are smart moves, and if Schmidt is bad a 3 at 16 per, how is Padilla good at 3 for 11 per? But, that's what makes the Hot Stove fun, debating things like this. I just have no faith in the Texas organization.
I hate A-Rod, just thought I'd toss that in there. Every day I hope that the Yanks will deal him, but, if the Cubs have not gobbled him up via a deal yet, who the hell will??? Nobody.
MrPryck2U
ONE love, blood, life
Yes, I'm rooting for the BoSox to screw this up, but they'll probably sign him. I'll also add that I'm very happy A-rod is still on the Yanks. Every team in baseball would love to have him on their team, but the Yanks have him. Obviously, if he fails to produce in the playoffs in 2007, he's gone. Sadly, next year will more than likely be Joe Torre's last year with the Yanks whether the Yanks win or not.
If the BoSox don't sign Matsuzaka, they get their 51mil back and also prevent the Yanks from signing him. Plus, Matsuzaka can't be a free agent for another three years. He's the one that gets screwed here. But, everyone is supposed to operate in good faith, so it will probably get done.
If the BoSox don't sign Matsuzaka, they get their 51mil back and also prevent the Yanks from signing him. Plus, Matsuzaka can't be a free agent for another three years. He's the one that gets screwed here. But, everyone is supposed to operate in good faith, so it will probably get done.
phillyfan26
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Actually, as a Phillies fan I'd hate to have $25 million go out every year to an overrated player like A-Rod.
Pat Burrell makes half as much of A-Rod's money and produces about 75% of what he does. I consider Burrell one of the most overpaid players in the league. Where does that leave A-Rod? THE single most overpaid player in all of sports history. Some players have been worth that much in certain sports, like Jordan to the Bulls, but A-Rod's worth about a third of that.
Pat Burrell makes half as much of A-Rod's money and produces about 75% of what he does. I consider Burrell one of the most overpaid players in the league. Where does that leave A-Rod? THE single most overpaid player in all of sports history. Some players have been worth that much in certain sports, like Jordan to the Bulls, but A-Rod's worth about a third of that.
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phanan
Blue Crack Addict
You know things are crazy when they keep track of where Matsuzaka's plane is at the moment.
http://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/Headline_Archives/2006/12/da_plane_da_pla_2.html
http://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/Headline_Archives/2006/12/da_plane_da_pla_2.html
MrPryck2U
ONE love, blood, life
Oh no, another A-rod debate. LOL! I guess we'll have to wait and see with him. The most overpaid player won the MVP in 2005 and 2003. When Howard wins another MVP and the Phillies don't make it to the playoffs, are folks gonna say he's taking a lesson from A-rod? Yes, I know that Howard makes piss compared to A-rod, but he puts up numbers like A-rod did.
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