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Old 05-15-2003, 01:09 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chizip
just because there isnt a canadian team in the series doesnt mean its not exciting
You're right -- it's not because they aren't Canadian franchises. It's because both teams are boring.
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this is a different kind of exciting, knowing 1 mistake, letting in 1 bad goal will probably mean a loss
Yes, about as exciting as knowing that one extra coat of paint on your kitchen wall will make it dry that much slower. You just never know when you make that one mistake. How exciting!
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its a lot like a soccer game, and thats the most popular sport in the world
See my previous post. They're different games, and I like them for different reasons. Would you like Baseball more if it more closely resembled cricket? Well, cricket is *far* more popular world wide than baseball!!
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Old 05-15-2003, 01:13 PM   #107
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oh i am SO with you on this

Quote:
Originally posted by Michael Griffiths
Out trapping the trap!!! For the good of the game, will these two teams vanish of the face of the Earth? Nothing against their fans (hugs for Zoni ), but this isn't hockey, it's soccer!! If I wanted to watch soccer, I'd watch soccer. I like soccer, but I like(d) hockey for *much* different reasons.


Yeah. Can we just make the Devils and Sens the Final?
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Old 05-15-2003, 01:16 PM   #108
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I dont know miker, I think this series is pretty exciting, I'd rather watch it than the Ottawa-Jersey one. It's just amazing to see how long Giguere can go with this shut out streak. Just think if he can go a whole series without giving up a goal, that would be amazing. Besides, they scored 4 goals, there were a couple break aways, what more do ya want?

And to the people who don't want Disney to win, thats kind of ridic. These days I think people just hear the name of a big corporation and they automatically think they are bad. Think of all the joy Disney brought to you as a kid and even today, why are they so bad?

And they havent used their money and power to go out and buy all the talent, they have the 17th highest payroll out of 30 teams. So this hating Disney thing is kind of ridiculous to me.
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Old 05-15-2003, 02:54 PM   #109
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Yes, Disney has done way more evil things than buy sports teams. The success that the Ducks have has been built, no bought

I do have to say - I love Paul Kariya. U.S. born (right?) and succesful in a sport dominated by Canadians and Europeans (I am going to take hell for that comment). But in reality - very few, VERY FEW of the NHL stars hail from the states, despite the majority of the teams playing here.

I am still convinced that Grifdawg doesn't realize that this is "boring" to him because there is not a team for him to cheer against. I don't see it as more or less exciting than what is going on in Ottawa and East Rutherford (NJ).

Barry Melrose broke down a Devils powerplay last night - and showed how damn conservative and defensive minded they play offensively. They don't take a lot of chances. In other words..BORING.

Grif...define EXCITING hockey for me so we can be on the same page here. I see the Wild as exciitng yes, it's hard not to as a fan). They have a pretty good set of goalies - a ton of fast young players with great shots and stick skills - and a brute set of deenseman (BTW, I want Lemaire to bench face mask boy - Mitchell is an idiot). Sounds like an exciting team if you ask me (speed, skill and ability to score, just not against the gigsaw puzzle).
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Old 05-15-2003, 03:58 PM   #110
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I believe Kariya is Canadian.....could be wrong though....sorry if I am.
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Old 05-15-2003, 04:02 PM   #111
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he was born in Vancouver

the ducks only have 4 americans on their team

13 canucks

6 russians

4 swedes

1 english

1 czech

1 swiss

for all those who care
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Old 05-15-2003, 04:48 PM   #112
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I know Keith Carney is one of the American Ducks. Who are the others?



Your sig looks like U2 impersonating N'Stink.
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Old 05-15-2003, 04:51 PM   #113
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Dan Blysma from Grand Haven, Michigan
Todd Reirden from Deerfield, Illinois

and

Kurt Sauer from St Cloud, Minnesota
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Old 05-15-2003, 05:19 PM   #114
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Zoney, sorry I haven't posted. I've been busy crying in my beer.

I think our team is completely psyched out. I can't beLIEve they haven't managed to score one freaking goal!!! It's too bad they aren't doing better. They worked so hard to get here, I'd really hate to see them completely shut out.

I am not a bandwagon jumper. I've been watching them for 3 yeras, not just during the play-offs. It's just that I really didn't have anything worth saying and I don't want to sound like a crybaby.

I still love my Wild.
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Old 05-15-2003, 05:20 PM   #115
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Always a Minnesotan

The Wild have two or three from the states:

Darby Hendricks - Richfield, Minn.
Jim Dowd - Brick, New Jersey (he was a nemisis to my H.S. hockey team)
Jeremy Stevenson - San Bernadino, California

15 Canadians
like five from the "eastern Block/former USSR"
A Finnish player
and of course - Richard Park from South Korea. Diversity!
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Old 05-15-2003, 06:56 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally posted by LarryMullen's_POPAngel
Who'd have thought that the Ducks would be one game from the Cup finals?
I think that whoever wins in the East will win the Cup, though.
After the Detroit series I thought they'd go all the way... not even a beast from the east can stop Mickey eh.

And for Zoner I'll define exciting hockey:

Exciting Hockey

There's several ingredients to an exciting hockey game/series:

1) Familiarity:
- it's a cliché, but familiarity does breed contempt. The best series involve a deep-rooted rivalry. Now, this doesn't require a lot of history between teams... but the only way it develops is through physical play and stupid post-game comments... (see Todd Bertuzzi )

- examples: last year, Toronto vs. NY Islanders... not much playoff history between the two teams, but it became the most brutal series of the past few years... and then of course there's the long-term rivals like Montreal/Boston, Detroit/Colorado, Calgary/Edmonton, etc.

2) Physicality (The Rough Stuff) And HEART
- if there's no hitting... it's soccer, plain and simple. Checking causes mistakes and opens up the ice for scoring chances.

3) Talent (Goaltending, and Scoring)
- there are only two types of highlights that you see emanating from a hockey… a great save or a great goal. Never in my life have a seen the sports reels show a well-executed left-wing lock… This brings me to my next point.

4) Game Systems (Coaching)
- Open-ice river hockey… no holds barred. That’s the way to go. It may not win championships, but it’s the most exciting product to watch. This is where the only back-checking is done by defensemen… and the forwards get in position for a scoring chance. The Swedes perfected this with the Torpedo system, where the team plays with 4 forwards… relying on their goalie to make spectacular saves. The point is, to win by beating the hell out of the opponent’s red lamp.

-There are a few coaches out there who practice this style:

Pat Quinn (Toronto)… probably the most exciting team to watch in hockey, along with The Canucks, the Oilers, and the Avalanche.

So, if you take these points in mind, you may notice that I’ve biased Canadian franchises for having the most exciting product. The reason: Winning. A lot of owners in the states emphasize win now and win big… so they acquire a coach that is well known for building teams from scratch, like Jacques Lemaire. The best way to win fast is to employ a system that is against the four standards I brought up above… create a team that suppresses their natural talent, and that stresses defence first. This should satisfy an American audience that wants to see a winning product… people will go to see a winning team rather than watch an exciting losing team (that’s the general sentiment I hear from non-Canadian fans). With that type of system prevailing, you get the type of teams like Minnesota and Anaheim in the Final Four… dull, but effective. And, more importantly… there are fans in the seats to watch a winning (regardless of boring) team.

Now you ask, why are mostly Canadian teams privy to exciting hockey? Simple, to attract more crowds and get more fans in the seats. If you don’t have a lot of money (to buy a team), the only way to do it is to offer an exciting product based on the four principles I outlined. Some “lesser-than” teams do try to dilute the product and convert to trap systems… with minimal success. The Flames are one such team… they thought that the only way to get fans was to win… but with the boring trap style they just couldn’t win, and couldn’t fill the arena. Now the approach is different… they’re trying to import an exciting brand of hockey, one which will not only allow for improvement towards winning, but will ensure a long-term and large season-ticket base.

How can we get more exciting hockey… easy, just do what the NBA does… adjust the rules. Eliminate the red-line, decrease goalie equipment, increase the net, retire Patrick Roy already (I know I would thoroughly enjoy that)

There’s no simple answer as to why there’s not a lot of exciting hockey, but it comes down to what do you want more… win the fans by winning, or KEEP the fans by winning in an EXCITING fashion? If you want one reason why the NHL does so poorly in the States, just look at that question and how most of the American owners have addressed it…

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Old 05-16-2003, 02:29 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chizip
I dont know miker, I think this series is pretty exciting, I'd rather watch it than the Ottawa-Jersey one. It's just amazing to see how long Giguere can go with this shut out streak. Just think if he can go a whole series without giving up a goal, that would be amazing. Besides, they scored 4 goals, there were a couple break aways, what more do ya want?
Yes, it's neat to see Giggy going for the shutout record, but that's not my point. I'm talking about the excitement of the flow of the game, itself. As for what else do I want, it would be nice to have some more room in the neutral zone, more hitting, more speed and creativity. Is that so much to ask? The Ducks scored 4 goals, which made the game a little more tolerable, but I have to agree with D. Cherry on this one: it was "excuse me hockey" through and through.
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Old 05-16-2003, 02:40 AM   #118
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Originally posted by zonelistener

I am still convinced that Grifdawg doesn't realize that this is "boring" to him because there is not a team for him to cheer against. I don't see it as more or less exciting than what is going on in Ottawa and East Rutherford (NJ).

Barry Melrose broke down a Devils powerplay last night - and showed how damn conservative and defensive minded they play offensively. They don't take a lot of chances. In other words..BORING.

Grif...define EXCITING hockey for me so we can be on the same page here. I see the Wild as exciitng yes, it's hard not to as a fan). They have a pretty good set of goalies - a ton of fast young players with great shots and stick skills - and a brute set of deenseman (BTW, I want Lemaire to bench face mask boy - Mitchell is an idiot). Sounds like an exciting team if you ask me (speed, skill and ability to score, just not against the gigsaw puzzle).
No, it's not boring because there isn't a team to cheer against. It's just not entertaining. There's no room in the neatral zone; it's pretty much a chess game out there. It's so tactical, that all the fun and flow of the game has been completely sucked out. Yes, tactics and strategy may all be interesting, but it's not what I call entertaining.

As for the Devils, yes, I completely agree with you. Like the Ducks and Wild, they play the trap to a tee. They are probably the best at it out of any team in the NHL. I never once said they were exciting. I hate that aspect (only aspect) of NJ's game. They stifled Ottawa tonight, and brought the Senators down to the lowest common denominator. It's sad to see. They could have been playing the Penguins out there. Offensive skill now has no place in the game anymore.

My definition of exciting has been covered quite well by Cujo's points. The Wild capitalize on a team that makes defensive mistakes. But do they send in 2 guys on an intense forcheck? Do they actively create scoring opportunities? Not very often. They score on the counter attack. It's a passive model. Such a model fails when you're playing a team who does the same thing to you, such as the Ducks. As you can see, you'll never win convincingly with such a model unless you have a robot in net (ie, Giggy).

This is why I love watching the Canucks. At least they try and entertain the fans. They believe that they can win with that style, and though they didn't do it this year in the playoffs, I have full confidence that they will tighten up the defence next season for a full on balanced attack, ala Ottawa.
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Old 05-16-2003, 10:22 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally posted by Michael Griffiths
This is why I love watching the Canucks. At least they try and entertain the fans. They believe that they can win with that style, and though they didn't do it this year in the playoffs, I have full confidence that they will tighten up the defence next season for a full on balanced attack, ala Ottawa.
It always comes back to the Canucks

Tighten up on defense means tightening the free-flowing offense. Teams are there to win championships - not "excite" the fans. Sorry. You can excite the fans all you want, but, if you don't win championships - you are worthless. Three teams with this similar style of play in the Cup semis - and the one without the style is down two games to one and couldn't score last night.

You cannot honestly sit there and tell me that you rather see an "exciting" brand of ocke year after year that gets knocked out in the first or second round of the playoffs.

I bet you will see more teams play this way.
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Old 05-16-2003, 10:39 AM   #120
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I'm gonna have to agree with the zoner here.

I don't get the, "Well we are gonna lose anyway to let's lose being exctitng" theory. You say Canadians can't buy a team but let's see, Ottawa is 25th in salary, the Wild are dead last at 30th, Anaheim is 17th and new Jersey is 8th. 3 out of the 4 remaining teams are in the bottom half of salary with 1 being dead last!

I know I'd much much much rather win boringly than lose excitingly, and you can do that with a low payroll. The St. Louis Cardinals are a very exciting team as they score a lot of runs, but they have a terrible bullpen and we lose half of our games by giving up a home run to end it. Now do I go, wow, that was so exciting! No, I am sick to my stomach that we just lost. If know we are gonna lose the majority of the games, why would I spend big money to go to the games? I can have the same sick feeling watching from home. To get people in the stands you have to win. Of course exciting and winning is better than winning, but a win is a win and I know I am elated with any type of win.
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