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Old 03-13-2008, 10:01 AM   #871
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Maths Teacher: "What you have there is a surd in a surd in a surd."

Student: "That's absurd!"
I have no idea what a surd is (or I've repressed the memory), but !!
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Old 03-13-2008, 10:02 AM   #872
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I'm not completely certain on this, since I haven't read much about the subject, but there is the possibility that Mary was not a virgin at all, and it's simply from an accidental mistranslation of New Testament Greek that we have this interpretation.

However, I always take theories like this with a grain of salt.
Actually, I believe this is quite true and gaining academic consensus. The original talks about a "young girl" - there is no need to read "virgin" into that, and going by societal norms, there is NO WAY after marrying Joseph that Mary would have stayed a virgin, as the marriage would not have been valid.

But the Catholic church right now doesn't seem too concerned with that sort of thing.
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Old 03-13-2008, 10:04 AM   #873
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I agree entirely. I was especially disappointed by Larry during The Fly last tour. It was the best version of The Fly ever, but Larry's drumming was made of epic phail. I tried to headbang, but he was far too boring. I headbanged anyway as Edge was rocking the fuck out, but had to imagine more drumming there to make it worthwhile ...
NEEDS MOAR COWBELL!

Just kidding, I reckon he should and could add a double kick to his repertoire. He relies too much on cymbals, I think.

That being said, I do base my style off him - it's fairly minimalist, and it focuses on going along with, and being a part of the song rather than forming its own part. That, of course, is because as a drummer I am Phail Collins, and probably not even as good as he was.
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Old 03-13-2008, 10:05 AM   #874
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The only problem I have with the "atheist" thing is that choosing to NOT believe in God is just as strong a statement (to me) as believing in God is. A Christian believes there is a God - an atheist believes, just as strongly (again, this is my understanding), that there is NO God.
What you've described there is a strong atheist. I don't think I could ever be one of those. Weak atheism and agnosticism cross over, though not all weak atheists are agnostics (some are apatheists, some are ignostics, etc.) and I think you could probably make the case that not all agnostics are necessarily weak atheists. But it's getting too late for me to really analyse and articulate this in too much depth!
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Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
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Old 03-13-2008, 10:05 AM   #875
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Actually, I believe this is quite true and gaining academic consensus. The original talks about a "young girl" - there is no need to read "virgin" into that, and going by societal norms, there is NO WAY after marrying Joseph that Mary would have stayed a virgin, as the marriage would not have been valid.

But the Catholic church right now doesn't seem too concerned with that sort of thing.
Interesting.

And let's face it, up to about 300 years ago, if you'd said this to the Catholic Church they'd've burned you at the stake. Now, they just ignore you, or call you a heretic and go
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Old 03-13-2008, 10:06 AM   #876
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Quote:
Originally posted by Axver

Actually, I believe this is quite true and gaining academic consensus. The original talks about a "young girl" - there is no need to read "virgin" into that, and going by societal norms, there is NO WAY after marrying Joseph that Mary would have stayed a virgin, as the marriage would not have been valid.

But the Catholic church right now doesn't seem too concerned with that sort of thing.
My auntie reads NT Greek, but as she is a missionary and often a bit on the fundie side of things (usually she's pretty cool, though), she probably has no interest in making sure about this.

It's very interesting, though, but even if true, it's unlikely it'll be seen as anything other than a revisionist theory by most people. Which is a pain in the arse, as I'm quite obsessive about the mistranslations of ancient Greek stuff. Like all the writing supposedly proving widespread, encouraged Greek homosexuality and Sappho being a lesbian in the modern sense. That's all blatant mistranslation or misinterpretation, but a lot of academics still see this as homophobic revisionism.
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Old 03-13-2008, 10:09 AM   #877
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Originally posted by The Sad Punk
I'm not completely certain on this, since I haven't read much about the subject, but there is the possibility that Mary was not a virgin at all, and it's simply from an accidental mistranslation of New Testament Greek that we have this interpretation.

However, I always take theories like this with a grain of salt.
From what I've heard, there are loads of "accidental" mis-translations.... the very fact that someone has sat down and picked and chosen from loads of contemporaneous texts about what is Bible-worthy and what is blasphemy, makes me doubt a lot of those sort of things in the Bible. I mean, in a literal historical sense, as well as a religious one. The fact that I doubt the existence of God and all that doesn't stop me from accepting that some of the events in the Bible may well have actually happened, in some form.
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Old 03-13-2008, 10:10 AM   #878
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But it's getting too late for me to really analyse and articulate this in too much depth!
I agree, these things are best discussed over wine and nibbles. Doesn't mean we can't do it here, of course!

I'm getting tired. I'm gonna head off in about 5 mins... Sleep is good.
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Old 03-13-2008, 10:10 AM   #879
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That sounds fantastic. I consider myself lucky to have a couple of other amateur theologists as friends. It's basically the only thing we talk about after enough drinks, then I start rambling about Islamic reformation and why homophobia is so outdated in society, etc.
I'm jealous! I have one friend who is similarly theologically placed to me, but much less interested in it. So we can rant about religion's failings together, but we can't sit down and analyse theological claims or anything like that. In many cases, he follows my lead, which I'm not all too comfortable with.

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I'll have to make sure there's time for it and know where to stay in Melbourne, since most likely my brother will be coming with me.

I'm not a big wine drinker these days, though, other than fortified. Bad experiences with it and such. Since it'll probably be winter, I'll bring some gin along for tasting or some winter-type Belgian beers - that is, unless the heatwave is still going then!

Mind you, the nibbles must include the following:
- high quality feta
- quality tzatziki
- sun-dried tomato dip
- Camembert
- a shitload of Jatz.
This sounds made of ExtraSuperWin. Especially with Ali sitting in and the foods you and the Maj. have added subsequent to the quoted post. I really can't wait to do this.

And when you're in Melbourne, I think you'll be introducing me to some new booze. I really have almost solely stuck with wine ...
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Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 03-13-2008, 10:12 AM   #880
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Originally posted by major_panic
I remember reading that and going a giant WTF?!.

You should all check out the Brick Testament by the way - it includes some absolutely hilarious takes on the Torah laws!
I guess you have to trust someone to let them put their hand that close to your balls...?

I've bookmarked that to read later... love the classification system!
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Old 03-13-2008, 10:12 AM   #881
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Originally posted by Alisaura

From what I've heard, there are loads of "accidental" mis-translations.... the very fact that someone has sat down and picked and chosen from loads of contemporaneous texts about what is Bible-worthy and what is blasphemy, makes me doubt a lot of those sort of things in the Bible. I mean, in a literal historical sense, as well as a religious one.
That's why I'm learning NT Greek - to sort some of the rubbish translations out there from what it really says.

One thing I look for in a good preacher / pastor is extensive use of the original Greek text, not just to back up what they say but to guide what they say.
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Old 03-13-2008, 10:13 AM   #882
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hi thread. looks like i'm missing an interesting conversation but i didn't sleep enough last night so i can't think
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Old 03-13-2008, 10:14 AM   #883
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This sounds made of ExtraSuperWin. Especially with Ali sitting in and the foods you and the Maj. have added subsequent to the quoted post. I really can't wait to do this.
We're going to look like the absolute strangest group in the world, sitting around the Botanical Gardens or whatever with a picnic basket, a cd player blasting U2, several religious texts and a lot of discussion!

And that's not even mentioning our disparate ages, looks and personalities!

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Old 03-13-2008, 10:15 AM   #884
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hi thread. looks like i'm missing an interesting conversation but i didn't sleep enough last night so i can't think
Hey Vari!

For a hilarious, if somewhat unrelated take on what we've been talking about, just look at the Brick Testament!
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Old 03-13-2008, 10:15 AM   #885
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Originally posted by Axver
I'm jealous! I have one friend who is similarly theologically placed to me, but much less interested in it. So we can rant about religion's failings together, but we can't sit down and analyse theological claims or anything like that. In many cases, he follows my lead, which I'm not all too comfortable with.
Ah, then I hope I don't disappoint you. I'll be sure to touch up on any knowledge, bring some books along, and such.


Quote:
This sounds made of ExtraSuperWin. Especially with Ali sitting in and the foods you and the Maj. have added subsequent to the quoted post. I really can't wait to do this.

And when you're in Melbourne, I think you'll be introducing me to some new booze. I really have almost solely stuck with wine ...
Oh, it'd be a wonderful honour to introduce you to more alcohol! You'll get a hard start by not having Coronas as your preferred beer (it is a sign of Man's failure that the most popular beer internationally is from Mexico rather than central Europe), that drinking rum and coke is a bad, boganesque habit, and that UDLs should be consumed only by adolescent girls.



Also if you're leaving, bye Maj! Nice talking to you!
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