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Old 03-13-2008, 09:48 AM   #856
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Originally posted by Axver

But is an attribute of perfection or of "being God" a need for nothing? I actually originally worded this "a lack of lacking nothing" ... hello paradox, as that in itself is a lack! A lack of lack!
I'm going to drag this thread down from its intellectual level to post this exchange that happened at my high school:

Maths Teacher: "What you have there is a surd in a surd in a surd."

Student: "That's absurd!"
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Old 03-13-2008, 09:49 AM   #857
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Oh hell yes! I'm sure we'll probably talk about stuff other than theology, anyway.
U2, for example?

I know, we'll talk about

ONE!
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Old 03-13-2008, 09:50 AM   #858
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No, we won't talk about One. Unless it relates to this:
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Old 03-13-2008, 09:50 AM   #859
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Originally posted by Axver
But is an attribute of perfection or of "being God" a need for nothing? I actually originally worded this "a lack of lacking nothing" ... hello paradox, as that in itself is a lack! A lack of lack!
But if lack is defined as a void or nothing or whatever... can you lack it? If you had EVERYTHING, then perhaps you would lack lack... but it's impossible to lack nothing, if you count a lack as something you can lack...


*headasplode*

It's too late at night for this ... I need milo.

*abandons hope of adequate sleep*
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Old 03-13-2008, 09:51 AM   #860
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Mind you, the nibbles must include the following:
- high quality feta
- quality tzatziki
- sun-dried tomato dip
- Camembert
- a shitload of Jatz.
Hell yes. You have good taste. Add some Jarlsberg to the mix for fun and I'm totally there!

Actually Ax, that reminds me of the fetta cheese / sundried tomato toasted sandwich thing - did you ever try that?
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Old 03-13-2008, 09:51 AM   #861
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YES. The church (well, the parts of it that I know about) are well aware of this and are preparing for a massive fight.

I think that the Secular Age is going to come soon. Which is a bit sad and a bit exciting in equal parts really - sad when you consider that 6000+ years of human belief will be dropped, but exciting when you consider that we'll be going deep into uncharted territory and probably coming up with whole new ideas and concepts.

I'd say that the church would evolve and adapt to the new ideas. It has to, in order to survive. Even the Vatican is beginning to now - note how "pollution" is one of the 14 all-new deadly sins!
I worry that the church is approaching the Secular Age in the wrong way. I feel as if it has an inherently negative attitude. Now, I know, this is natural! It has a lot of self-interest at stake. But I feel that its attitude will only serve to discourage more people. I think it would be sad if the church became the old codger waving its stick, screaming "you bloody kids". It would only harm religion more.

Perhaps the best thing for the church to do is to stop viewing it as a fight! I know, I'm talking to a brick wall with regards to the American evangelicals, but many other Christian bodies are probably quite happy to sit down and talk things out respectfully with the non-religious. There's no fight. We're all just people looking for answers. Let's work together and share notes. I just so happen to think this process will lead to the irrelevancy of religion, but that's leading to another discussion entirely!

By the way, when I first heard about the Vatican's new sins thing, I thought it was an Onion parody!
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Old 03-13-2008, 09:54 AM   #862
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"I am the Lord your God, who delivered you out of Egypt; you shall have no other gods but me" clearly implies the existence of other gods.
I remember wondering about that when I was having a go at a Gideon bible in some hotel room somewhere. I used to drive between Canberra and my parents' place (in Victoria) every so often, and stop overnight in Albury... and I'd read a bit of the bible in the room, just out of curiosity. I keep meaning to have a proper read of it...

(I did have to chuckle at the bit where some guy puts his hand under some other guy's thigh to solemnly swear something. *cough*)
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Old 03-13-2008, 09:55 AM   #863
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Dude, didn't you know? Sex is EEEEEVIL.


And it TOTALLY harms Christ's divinity if Mary subsequently got it on with Joseph. We must stay away from the evil sex! NATURAL DESIRES ARE OF SATAN!

(Yeah, there's another one of my problems with mainstream religion. It doesn't even try to put forward an intelligent argument that natural desires need to be properly channelled to be healthy; it just rants and raves about sin and tsks at everyone.)



(Wow, am I now about 30 posts behind or something? I guess I stop to ponder a bit when writing some of these posts as religion is very important to me and that slows me down ...)
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Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
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Old 03-13-2008, 09:56 AM   #864
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It's the uncertainty about agnosticism I love. We are ignorant. That's how my mind is now, that nobody can be certain of anything about a god. Nobody can truly be theist or atheist. Agnosticism is the limbo, the connection between the two. I feel very safe there, but still not fulfilled.
Me too, totally. It's the unfulfilledness that keeps me curious about theology and spirituality in general - I'm not necessarily looking for something to believe in, I don't think I necessarily NEED to believe in something, but I'm still curious.
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Old 03-13-2008, 09:56 AM   #865
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Originally posted by major_panic


Hell yes. You have good taste. Add some Jarlsberg to the mix for fun and I'm totally there!

Actually Ax, that reminds me of the fetta cheese / sundried tomato toasted sandwich thing - did you ever try that?
Oh, Jarlsberg - how could I forget? We could fry up some Cypriot haloumi, too.

I'm rather glad none of you are vegan.
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Old 03-13-2008, 09:57 AM   #866
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Originally posted by Axver


I worry that the church is approaching the Secular Age in the wrong way. I feel as if it has an inherently negative attitude. Now, I know, this is natural! It has a lot of self-interest at stake. But I feel that its attitude will only serve to discourage more people. I think it would be sad if the church became the old codger waving its stick, screaming "you bloody kids". It would only harm religion more.

Perhaps the best thing for the church to do is to stop viewing it as a fight! I know, I'm talking to a brick wall with regards to the American evangelicals, but many other Christian bodies are probably quite happy to sit down and talk things out respectfully with the non-religious. There's no fight. We're all just people looking for answers. Let's work together and share notes. I just so happen to think this process will lead to the irrelevancy of religion, but that's leading to another discussion entirely!

By the way, when I first heard about the Vatican's new sins thing, I thought it was an Onion parody!
I'm hoping for more interfaith dialogue and promotion of cross-understanding (if that's even a word).

By fight though, I mean a spiritual one, where they have to undergo some sort of transformation to remain relevant and they know it.

Which is why I'm trying to find more theologians. I'm doing cutting-edge stuff for the church as a hobby: writing studies and discussions, and hoping to influence the coming generation to coexist peacefully with everyone else.
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Old 03-13-2008, 09:58 AM   #867
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And it TOTALLY harms Christ's divinity if Mary subsequently got it on with Joseph. We must stay away from the evil sex! NATURAL DESIRES ARE OF SATAN!
I'm not completely certain on this, since I haven't read much about the subject, but there is the possibility that Mary was not a virgin at all, and it's simply from an accidental mistranslation of New Testament Greek that we have this interpretation.

However, I always take theories like this with a grain of salt.
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Old 03-13-2008, 09:59 AM   #868
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Originally posted by Alisaura

(I did have to chuckle at the bit where some guy puts his hand under some other guy's thigh to solemnly swear something. *cough*)
I remember reading that and going a giant WTF?!.

You should all check out the Brick Testament by the way - it includes some absolutely hilarious takes on the Torah laws!
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Old 03-13-2008, 09:59 AM   #869
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Not the quiet meditative type?


The sometimes quiet, sometimes very excitable intellectual type , yes!

Quote:
And on a side note, man I wish Larry was still drumming like he did on War or October. I mean, the live version of COBL's great, but stuff like Vertigo and ISHFWILF could be so, so, so much better. He needs to reinvigorate WOWY too.
I agree entirely. I was especially disappointed by Larry during The Fly last tour. It was the best version of The Fly ever, but Larry's drumming was made of epic phail. I tried to headbang, but he was far too boring. I headbanged anyway as Edge was rocking the fuck out, but had to imagine more drumming there to make it worthwhile ...
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Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 03-13-2008, 10:01 AM   #870
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I'm not completely certain on this, since I haven't read much about the subject, but there is the possibility that Mary was not a virgin at all, and it's simply from an accidental mistranslation of New Testament Greek that we have this interpretation.
Really? I haven't heard this one - I do know that the Catholic idea of transubstantiation comes from a mistranslation by Jerome from Greek into Latin, and I think (but I'm much less certain of) similarly with the worship of Mary.

Once I learn NT Greek, I'll have to check on that.
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