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Old 08-15-2004, 06:34 PM   #16
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Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
that being said... sure would be nice to see kidd, garnett, t-mac and shaq instead of lamar odom and iverson... but it's still pathetic.

"PS: Headache, I don't really see how this is so terrible...maybe it will inspire USA Basketball to work harder to make sure it wins next time and therefore raise the quality of the game in general."


I hope Kidd/Garnettt/T-mac/Shaq are watching. I kind of hope we don't win any medal so we don't take the world of basketball so lightly anymore. The world isn't scared of our basketball anymore.
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Old 08-15-2004, 06:49 PM   #17
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you can't teach defense... defense is about heart and desire. even the most deceptive zone doesn't work for shit if the players don't put in the effort to make it work.

as for shooting... bad shooting is an epidemic in american basketball. guys who were D3 players 5 years ago are now getting D1 scholarships because they can knock down an open jump shot. it's pathetic.

Quote:
PS: Headache, I don't really see how this is so terrible...maybe it will inspire USA Basketball to work harder to make sure it wins next time and therefore raise the quality of the game in general.
they said that when they lost 3 games at home in the world championships of basketball 2 years ago... and when they lost to italy... and when they needed a half court shot to beat germany...

i get so pissed off at stuff like this because basketball is a big part of my life... i was talking to a good friend of mine the other day who's an assistant coach at the university of hartford. he was telling me how he went to work at a camp out in chicago where 25 of the top recruits in the nation were... guys who are going to the nba, carolina, duke, uconn, etc. etc. they spent the entire camp on fundamentals... stuff that i teach 5th graders at camp... and many of the players STRUGGLED with them. but ask them to dunk, and woo wee could they put on a show. it's pathetic... basketall in america is slowly but surely killing it's self. and this is just another step down the toilet...

but in case i missed my point on why exactly this is a big deal, i'll let the numbers talk...

United States Basketball Olympic Record with College Players: 85-2
(and 1 of those loses was the controversial gold medal game with russia in which the game was over, but somehow wasn't)

NBA Olympians Record in '92, '96 & 2000 Olympics: 24-0

2004 Olympic Team: 0-1

America had a .981 all time winning percentage in olympic play comming into this game... that's why this loss is absolutely terrible. it spots out the fundamental flaws in american basketball. the detroit pistons could beat puerto rico, but a team of "all stars" can't... it's because even these "all stars" don't understand the basic shti simple fundamentals of the game... it's pathetic.
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Old 08-15-2004, 07:31 PM   #18
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I might have to disagree somewhat. In high school, we made it to the state championship simply because of defense. (we lost to a team with Nick Collison of Kansas and 2 other D1 players who went to Creighton) We could not shoot at all. I remember winning games 39-36 consistantly. Our help man to man defense sometimes confused teams into thinking we were in a zone.

Anyway, I will say it takes a certain mindset from the players, but you can teach things such as help defense, where to go on and off the ball etc.



USA needs a player like Chris Mullin.
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Old 08-15-2004, 07:44 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
they said that when they lost 3 games at home in the world championships of basketball 2 years ago... and when they lost to italy... and when they needed a half court shot to beat germany...

i get so pissed off at stuff like this because basketball is a big part of my life... i was talking to a good friend of mine the other day who's an assistant coach at the university of hartford. he was telling me how he went to work at a camp out in chicago where 25 of the top recruits in the nation were... guys who are going to the nba, carolina, duke, uconn, etc. etc. they spent the entire camp on fundamentals... stuff that i teach 5th graders at camp... and many of the players STRUGGLED with them. but ask them to dunk, and woo wee could they put on a show. it's pathetic... basketall in america is slowly but surely killing it's self. and this is just another step down the toilet...

but in case i missed my point on why exactly this is a big deal, i'll let the numbers talk...

United States Basketball Olympic Record with College Players: 85-2
(and 1 of those loses was the controversial gold medal game with russia in which the game was over, but somehow wasn't)

NBA Olympians Record in '92, '96 & 2000 Olympics: 24-0

2004 Olympic Team: 0-1

America had a .981 all time winning percentage in olympic play comming into this game... that's why this loss is absolutely terrible. it spots out the fundamental flaws in american basketball. the detroit pistons could beat puerto rico, but a team of "all stars" can't... it's because even these "all stars" don't understand the basic shti simple fundamentals of the game... it's pathetic.
Precisely. And that's why this isn't the end of the world. It's one loss in a preliminary round game. And if it finally inspires USA Basketball to start teaching the fundamentals better, then isn't it for the best in the long run?
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Old 08-16-2004, 05:12 AM   #20
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i think the embarrassment of what happened at indianapolis in the world basketball championship would have been a wake up call, apparently not. i just think the nba players today dont really even care that much, as long as they are getting their millions of dollars.

its a different type of player today, do you think michael jordan, bird, magic, or even barkley would let that happen, no way. they had a desire to do anything to win that is lacking in players today.

and so what if the nba gets better ratings that the nhl, bowling, poker, and arena football beat the nhl in ratings too. the nba is a very bad brand of basketball right now, as shown by the world championship and now this debacle.
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Old 08-16-2004, 06:00 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chizip
i think the embarrassment of what happened at indianapolis in the world basketball championship would have been a wake up call, apparently not. i just think the nba players today dont really even care that much, as long as they are getting their millions of dollars.

its a different type of player today, do you think michael jordan, bird, magic, or even barkley would let that happen, no way. they had a desire to do anything to win that is lacking in players today.
I totally agree
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Old 08-16-2004, 07:04 PM   #22
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Originally posted by Got Philk?
I might have to disagree somewhat. In high school, we made it to the state championship simply because of defense. (we lost to a team with Nick Collison of Kansas and 2 other D1 players who went to Creighton) We could not shoot at all. I remember winning games 39-36 consistantly. Our help man to man defense sometimes confused teams into thinking we were in a zone.

Anyway, I will say it takes a certain mindset from the players, but you can teach things such as help defense, where to go on and off the ball etc.



USA needs a player like Chris Mullin.
let me rephrase... yes... you can teach defense... obviously. defensive rotation, ball-you-man, positioning away from the ball... all things that can be "taught." but you can teach a person every damn thing ever said or written about defense... it still comes down to who's got the balls to D up.
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Old 08-16-2004, 09:23 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Got Philk?
I might have to disagree somewhat. In high school, we made it to the state championship simply because of defense. (we lost to a team with Nick Collison of Kansas and 2 other D1 players who went to Creighton) We could not shoot at all. I remember winning games 39-36 consistantly. Our help man to man defense sometimes confused teams into thinking we were in a zone.
A few suggestions for you home state's basketball program:

Shot clocks and three pointers!


(just joking)
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Old 08-17-2004, 12:37 AM   #24
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A few suggestions for you home state's basketball program:

Shot clocks and three pointers!


(just joking)
Haha! We probably broke 50 every once in a while. But good call!

Steve Kerr on ESPN says "It is more important to win a NBA Championship than a medal at the olympics."
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Old 08-19-2004, 03:51 AM   #25
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The fact that the US can no longer lure its best players is proof that the Olympics have worn out their welcome in the NBA. The NBA players lack interest in the "team" concept, and the college players lack experience as well as physical maturity.

If the USOC wants a competitive team they need to look harder at the American players that play professionally in Europe. Even though they are not quite gifted enough to play in the NBA, they are often among their Euro team's best players. They also are team players with loads of experience in the International game.

Take Pete Lisicky for example. Very solid college player at Penn State. Not quite quick enough for the big time, so he makes a living running hoops in a Euro league. Is he in AI's class? No way, but he's smart and can shoot the bejeepers out of the ball from distance. Plenty of other players like him to choose from at any given time.

Great idea, but the USOC will never do it.

Why? Because nobody in America knows who the F#ck Pete Lisicky is!! The USOC knows this and cannot market a team of no names. So in the name of marketing, they would rather lose with lazy millionaires than give the job to the most qualified.
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Old 08-19-2004, 09:49 AM   #26
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Sorry I've been absent from the discussion here. I momentarily forgot about PEUP, plus I've probably been too upset with our team to be able to respond intelligently. But after our defeat of Australia when we actually played like USA basketball for two quarters, I'm ready to dive in.

So in all of this mess, the thought that's been on my mind is: what the heck is David Stern doing? Doesn't he have some kind of power to make sure our nation isn't disgraced with a crappy team? Well, I finally heard an intelligent theory as to why he's letting our national team get embarrassed.

One of the biggest hurdles to getting international players to come to the NBA is their intimidation of the American game. They saw the '92 team and still fear shadow of Shaq, Garnet, T-Mac, etc. and don't think they can compete here. They'd rather win Euro championships than struggle to make an NBA team. Thus, the only international players we see on our courts are national superstarts back home.

However, if the USA Basketball teams starts stinking it up, that perception will change. More international players will flux into league, realizing that they do have the skills to compete in the American league. When those players play here, their home countries will tune in to watch, buy more jerseys, drink more gatorade, etc. and suddenly the NBA is a worldwide marketing machine. All in all, Stern gets more $$$$.

So basically, it all comes down to greed (surprise!). Stern wants us to lose so he can market his game to the world. From a marketing standpoint, it's pure genius. From a national standpoint, it's a disgrace. Unfortunately, it's all about the Benjamins.

Just a theory, but something worth thinking about.
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Old 08-21-2004, 02:40 PM   #27
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They have been playing it all on NBC. . .why didn't they do that for gynnastics, swimming, or anyof the others?

WAW.
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Old 08-21-2004, 03:01 PM   #28
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Yet another U.S. loss today.

Let's go back to college players next time.
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Old 08-21-2004, 03:58 PM   #29
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Sounds good to me.
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Old 08-21-2004, 04:13 PM   #30
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Agreed.
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