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Old 04-02-2003, 11:55 PM   #1
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Truest of Team Sports

It's interesting to contrast two of the major sports teams that occupy New York... You've got the Yankees (with a payroll higher than Snoop back in tha day) who always go deep in the playoffs or just plain win every year. Then you have the Rangers who ice the biggest check every year too... but they don't make the playoffs.

Do you think this is a reflection of the style of sports, where in Baseball you can buy superstars to win... Is baseball too individual? It seems that team chemistry doesn't have a lot of bearing on the success of the players and the success of the team in general. On the other hand, in hockey you can spend all you want but the chemistry just isn't there.

Basically, what do you think is the truest of team sports?

Basketball
Hockey
Baseball
Football
Soccer (Futbol)
Rugby
Cricket
Backgammon
PingPong
etc...

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Old 04-03-2003, 02:37 AM   #2
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I will say hockey. The teams are really *teams* to me. A player does not go after his individual glory...if he wants to win, he passes the puck, he doesn't try and score it himself just so he's the star.

And whether or not it's just humble rhetoric, none of them brag about how many points they've got. "I'm just glad we're winning and I'm helping the team, I don't think about that." When a trade is made, the other players really *care* about who is going and who is coming in.

If one or two players are missing or off their game, it always seems to throw the whole team off, it's that connected. (That's if they have good chemistry, obviously.) That's what I've always liked about hockey.

Baseball has always struck me as the most individualistic team sport. The lone player out on the mound or at bat...you cheer for them, not neccessarily the team. Of course you want the team to win, but the spotlight is on that one guy to either succeed or totally humiliate himself.
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Old 04-03-2003, 03:12 AM   #3
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American football is obviously the purest team sport. First off, hockey only has 6 players on the ice at a time. And a truly great player can go out and dominate a game. This is especially true if the great player is the goalie. In the playoffs a hot goaltender can carry a team on his back, so while I agree teamwork is key in hockey, it really isnt a necessity to win.

But in football everybody must execute perfectly to make a play work. Plays are drawn up so everybody has an important task. If you have the best quarter back it wont matter if you have a bad tackle who lets a guy go sack the quarterback every play. Or if the recievers cant get open or catch the pass.

It's the same way on defense, every 11 players have a responsibility. If one guy messes up it could lead to a touchdown, even if the other 10 guys did everything perfectly. Even if they arent involved in the tackle, everyone has a gap to fill or a space to occupy or a man to cover.

So football truly is the purest of team sports, or maybe ping pong.
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Old 04-03-2003, 04:28 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chizip
So football truly is the purest of team sports, or maybe ping pong.
I would tend to agree with the latter argument ...

Good points on football chizip, but I do have to disagree *peacefully* with respect to it being the greatest team sport. After playing high school football I found that there wasn't really a flow out there. A clear distinction existed between offense and defense, which really took away from the whole team aspect of the sport. As for not being an individual sport, look at football's dominant players... Ray Lewis single-handedly brought the championship to Baltimore a few years back. I think in any sport you'll find that certain teams win with either a great superstar, or a bunch of grunts who can gel together at the right time (i.e. the Patriots).

Good hockey points Spongebob

Hockey is definitely my pick (hey, I'm Canadian, what do you expect eh?)... if you merely look at the playoff structure of other sports and compare it to the NHL, there is a big difference. I would equate the grueling schedule to Basketball, but I don't think I could honestly say that Bball's the most representative team sport (see MJ, Shaq, Kobe)... playoffs in hockey force an entire team to play for the whole 60min of each game... while in football you have one game a week for a few weeks and it's over. I don't think this truly allows for a team to come together and work for a common goal... more like work for a bonus on the next pay stub.
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Old 04-03-2003, 05:02 AM   #5
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man you are really stupid arent you. (hows that for peaceful )

what position did you play in highschool? maybe i have a distorted view since i played both offense and defense, and how everyday the coaches would stress this was the greatest team sport and we had to play as a team.

I really dont think Ray Lewis was the sole factor, he had to have a supporting cast. I mean some people had to cover the recivers and others had to go after the quarterback. If they werent doing their job decently, there was absolutely nothing he could do about it. The quarterback could drop back, through it deep, and they score a touchdown, nothing he could do if he was watching the middle for a run.

Hockey is different. If a defence is playing crappy, 1 superstar could go play defense more, get the puck himself and go all the way down the ice for a score. I mean it doesnt really happen, but 1 player can dominate so much more in hockey without relaying on teammates than in football. Bad players can be made up for by great players a lot easier because they all have the same type of tasks. In football you are all doing something different, and most of the time someone cant save your butt if you mess up.

But I do agree that in the grueling grueling playoffs being a team is huge. You need each other to pick each other up and make each other better if you are gonna survive. The nhl playoffs are definitely the most grueling of any sport, and a whole team working together is critical. There are also a lot of injuires that can happen so you do need a full deep team that can make up for some injuries that may occur.

But overall, I still think football is more of a team sport. If not for the simple fact that just 1 player on the ice, the goalie, can pretty much determine that fate for a team. If he plays stellar and the rest of the team sucks, you can still win. If the whole team is great, but he sucks, then you will probably lose (see the blues with brent johnson) So thats why I cant pick it over football.

by the way I think the disticntion between offense and defense in football makes it even more a team game. You have to rely on your team mates to do their work while you are on the sideline, and no matter how wel you do, if they cant do it then you are screwed. So as you can see, everyone relies on each other in football, thus making it the purest team game.
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Old 04-03-2003, 05:14 AM   #6
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I was Safety... responsible and reliable...

Again disagree... no one in hockey plays the entire 60min... the max anyone plays is maybe 35min (in RegTime)... so that leaves half the game where a "superstar" isn't there... in football, you can field the same line (offense/defense) for the whole game... meaning Ray Lewis could play the whole game, stop the offense and score a touchdown... how much of a team is that? Believe me I hate him... I bet on the Raiders that year.

The argument you are making for O/D lines distinctness = true team is the same argument I'm making... except in hockey, your defense and offense have to work together in order for the other 5 visiting players to be contained... to win the game... that requires more than an effort from one superstar... even a goalie (not many of them can score goals)...
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Old 04-03-2003, 05:21 AM   #7
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whaaaat, nobody in the nfl plays offense and defense, especially offensive and defensive line. thats just ridic, come on now. a player cant stop the other team and/or score a touchdown by himself. You need 11 players all working n'sync (bye bye bye) in order to score/stop the other team. If even 1 player messes up, the whole play is fucked.

In hockey if a forward doesnt back check well or misses a pass, you have the other players that can help ya out. and in hockey all it takes is for the superstar to pop in a couple goals while he is on the ice to win the game for the team. A hockey team can win with 2 players plaing great and the rest of the team like shit. A great goalie to stop the shots and 1 player to put in a puck or 2. That cant be done in football.

Recently the blues have had a couple 1-0 wins, and the whole team was like osgood stole that game for us, as we played like shit but he stopped all 35 shots. 1 player cant steal a game in football.
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Old 04-03-2003, 05:25 AM   #8
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OK then,

The truest team sport has to be rugby then: insert exact same arguments. Add the fact that they play ironman style, and if one player misses an assignment or gets out of formation... you better go back and pick up your dignity... it's past the 22, and in between the uprights...

rugby... played that too...
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Old 04-03-2003, 05:32 AM   #9
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well thats possible, i almost played rugby but opted for golf, i am a true man. so i dont really know all the rules but its possible. but it seems like in football you stop and set a play where everyone will be involved and has a reponsibility. in rugby its continuous, so there could be people without really anything to do for a little bit, like right after you pass the ball, or are just trailing in the play or something. football is more organized where you have a specific job and if you dont do your job and are in the right spot 100% of the time, you are screwed.

but like i said, im not too familiar with rugby, so whatever. something about those scrums seem kind of homosexual to me.

not that there's anything wrong with that.
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Old 04-03-2003, 05:36 AM   #10
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There's nothing wrong with a scrum between men...

Rugby isn't continuous... you have lineouts (sort of like a drop ball, or throw-in for soccer) where your forwards and backs all have to be sound positionally...

Then you have the scrums... I played Fullback (pretty much the safety) and I KNEW when my players were out of position because I'm ready at the back of the field if someone breaks through...

Plus bonus marks goes to rugby, simply because of the cleats... I had a one inch hole in my thigh after getting rucked over... not as bad as it sounds... it's actually worse.
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Old 04-03-2003, 05:38 AM   #11
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well i do like to ruck as much as the next guy
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Old 04-03-2003, 01:36 PM   #12
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Can I opt for backgammon?
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Old 04-03-2003, 09:11 PM   #13
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the red sox, rangers, white sox, cubs, mets and dodgers all have baseball payrolls through the roof as well... none of whom have won championships anytime soon... not since before 1920 for the white sox, red sox and rangers. a lot of these teams... the mets, rangers and cubs... absolutely stunk last year. the twins and a's, with low payrolls, were both in the playoffs. as a met fan i hate to defend the yankees, but it's not about the money they spend... it's about how they've spent it. they spend a lot of money, but they spend it well.

as for the truest of team sports... tug'o'war
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Old 04-03-2003, 09:26 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chizip

but like i said, im not too familiar with rugby, so whatever. something about those scrums seem kind of homosexual to me.

not that there's anything wrong with that.


Many things in sports seem a tad homoerotic to me.

The butt-touching in football comes to mind. Maybe it is the true team sport.
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Old 04-03-2003, 09:37 PM   #15
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haha, i was a center on the offensive line, which means the quarterback put his hands under my butt to get the ball. i have to say that took a little getting used to. they also wouldnt let me wear a cup because when i would hike it, the quarterbacks fingers would get jammed between the cup and the football. so i had to hike the ball as hard as I could into my groin region with no protection at all. so yea that wasnt fun.

if thats not being a team player, i dont know what is.

but its pretty sad to say that the most action i got in high school was from a guy. but i guess it was from the starting quarterback, so could have been worse right??
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