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Old 05-23-2008, 11:13 PM   #106
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I know how I do it: I open my mouth to sing, and art comes out.
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Old 05-23-2008, 11:15 PM   #107
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I can't say i'm a fan of tribute bands - good for shits and giggles, it's not like they're doing anything wrong.

My biggest problem is trying to apply this to other forms of art. If i were to reproduce a great work of art with chalk on a pavement somewhere, is it art? My interpretation of it, does that make me an artist or not?

I'm having trouble following your train of thought, Screwy.
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Old 05-23-2008, 11:16 PM   #108
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If I can make an observation here, it seems to me that by Screwtape's own criteria, certain groups he has fobbed off as not artists are actually more artistic than certain groups he accepts as artists. Let's take as examples stage actors and landscape painters.

John Landscape-Painter decides he wants to paint Mount Whatever, and travels to the foot of the mountain safe in the knowledge that he is an artist in the Screwtape Paradigm of Art. Once he gets to the mountain, he sets up his gear and does what he does best. But he's not creating something that didn't previously exist; he's just using paint to depict a mountain that's already there. He's just interpreting how it looks with paint.

Meanwhile, in a nearby theatre, Jim Stageactor, between tears over his rejection from the Screwtape Paradigm of Art, is busy trying to get on with his work. He's going to star in a production of Shakespeare Work X. Sure, he has the character's lines and some hints of stage direction, but that's it. He has to create everything else: the character's mannerisms, the character's vocal tones and inflections, the way the character interacts with the non-verbal world around him, the non-verbal cues the character must give, and so on. All of this is created.

Jim Stageactor works with a lot less pre-existing material than John Landscape-Painter does, and has to create a lot more. Jim Stageactor has to create the entire non-verbal world! By your own criteria, Screwtape, Jim Stageactor is actually more of an artist. So why won't you acknowledge him as such?

(I, for the record, don't buy the "more/less of an artist" idea expressed in this post, but I think it's a hierarchy quite clearly established by Screwtape's definitions.)
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Old 05-23-2008, 11:18 PM   #109
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I know how I do it: I open my mouth to sing, and art comes out.
No, no, no. It was only art when the composer wrote it. It ceases to be art when someone other than the composer sings it. Which means that if the composer wrote a a piece for more than 1 singer, then it is impossible for his piece to be performed as art.

Or haven't you been paying attention?
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Old 05-23-2008, 11:19 PM   #110
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I know how I do it: I open my mouth to sing, and art comes out.
All i can see is a musician spitting paintings at the audience.
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Old 05-23-2008, 11:19 PM   #111
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So the person who builds the city is the artist, the person who takes the photo of it is the enemy?
and who is the person who builds the city on rock and roll?
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Old 05-23-2008, 11:19 PM   #112
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I'm putting the Screwtape Paradigm of Art into Wikipedia, Ax, If you don't mind.
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Old 05-23-2008, 11:20 PM   #113
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All i can see is a musician spitting paintings at the audience.
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Old 05-23-2008, 11:21 PM   #114
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and who is the person who builds the city on rock and roll?
Marconi does play the Mambo, after all.
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Old 05-23-2008, 11:21 PM   #115
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and who is the person who builds the city on rock and roll?
Not a clever town planner, you'd want to be putting that city on bedrock instead of rock and roll. That's just asking for earthquakes.
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Old 05-23-2008, 11:23 PM   #116
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Screwtape, you have an exceptionally narrow and rigid idea of what constitutes art -- more rigid than anyone I have ever known. I'm an artist (even by your narrow interpretation ), I work with other artists, and I grew up with and around artists, and not a single one would agree with your definition of art. Many of us make our living from our art and have done so for decades, and not one of us would agree with the limits you put on the definition of art. Performance is creation. That you cannot see that doesn't make it untrue. (how's that for a funky sentence? ) I will grant you that not all art -- performance art included -- is good art, but that's true of everything.

I actually find it hilarious that you think tribute bands are the enemy of art, because I feel the view you hold as to what constitutes art is a much bigger threat to actual art than millions of tribute bands could ever be. You want art to fit in some nice neat box and it just doesn't.
wow. not even kidding, i was about to type the same thing. you said it much more eloquently than i though, as usual screwy, trying to confine art, and telling everyone that's how it is, is...well...kinda misses the point of art, don't you think? just throwing in my opinion, as an artist myself.
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Old 05-23-2008, 11:24 PM   #117
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Marconi does play the Mambo, after all.
I was so close to making the same reference as you did. Phew!
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Old 05-23-2008, 11:24 PM   #118
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I'm putting the Screwtape Paradigm of Art into Wikipedia, Ax, If you don't mind.
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Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 05-23-2008, 11:25 PM   #119
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I am right. You will never understand what I am saying because you are unwilling to listen. You wish to speak and not examine. Call me what you, say about me what you will but I am right. I'm sorry that none of you will understand like most things.
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Old 05-23-2008, 11:26 PM   #120
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You're unwilling to even look at another perspective, Screwy. If you were just willing to do that, we might be more open to your opinion.
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