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Old 07-14-2004, 06:55 PM   #16
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Originally posted by LoveTown
Just be safe k?
With people like you stopping to help out, we're all safer.

The mc wife says thanks.

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Old 07-14-2004, 08:00 PM   #17
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my husband rides a motorbike to and from work; it's all we can afford. he works about a mile away from where we live so it's not bad at all. and yes, he does wear a helmet all the time, even if it's just a run up to the dumpster here or something. to each his own with the helmet thing i guess. but when he rides it (or if i pretend to, hehe), we wear the helmets.

lisa, glad to hear you stopped to help the guy and call 911. also glad to hear he's at least alive in the hospital. to me, helmets are kinda like the airbags in cars. sometimes they save lives, other times they can cause death or serious injury. unfortunately though it seems this time the helmet would've prevented a serous injury.

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Old 07-14-2004, 09:45 PM   #18
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Lovetown, thank you for being a responsible citizen and coming to the aid of an injured person. A lot of people would have driven by or just stopped and stared. Im glad you had the get up and go to act in a helpful manner

We have compulsory helmet wearing laws for motorbikes, bicycles and I think horses as well. (not 100% on the horses bit) in Australia. Its odd to hear of somewhere that doesnt. The things I take for granted.

Drive/ride safe, everyone.
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Old 07-14-2004, 11:42 PM   #19
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My heart just dropped when I read this post. My brother almost died in a motorcycle accident. Thank God at least he was wearing a helmet.

I hate motorcycles.
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Old 07-15-2004, 12:57 AM   #20
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Martha with all due respect, that view costs lives. As with any vehicle on the roads, incompetance, dangerous practices and hazardous conditions making all forms of travel dangerous at some point. Riders, by virtue of their vehicle of choice, are at more risk to injury than anyone else. There is a level of rationality in your argument that helmets can hinder vision and hearing and also there is the more worrying issue of car drivers acting as you described by purposely aiming for, and alarming bike riders. They're all valid points. But you dont seem to acknowledge that riding without a helmet is increasing the rider's risk exponentially. How you can use car drivers' dangerous practices as justification for allowing freedom of choice which results in more deaths for the vehicle type than any other is beyond me.
If we are to talk about negligence and bad practive, tell me. Do you know of ANY motorbike rider who has not at some point pulled up abreast at a set of lights or stop sign? A rider who has NOT merged in and out of steady traffic with reckless abandon? One who has NOT weaved their way illegally through slow moving heavy traffic? One who indicates EVERY time they merge or change lanes but instead uses the comparitive size of their vehicle to push in and out? One who has NEVER ridden in a dangerous manner to themselves by utilising the subsequent agility and weight of the bike to do what a car driver wouldn't dream of? Have any of your friends never once ridden 2 abreast in a lane? We can compare the dangers of both. We can all come up with examples of when one type of driver or rider is more dangerous than another. But nothing changes the fact that there is more frequency in foolish and outright stupidity in motor bike riders which cause more accidents and fatalities than any other. You can say your right to wear a helmet is yours. It's your life. One which the law futilely tries to protect.

I've never ridden on a motorbike and never will. I am a good and careful driver and know from years of driving the risks motorbikes cause to themselves and others. I'm sure you see a risk in cars and will take it for granted you and your husband are good and safe bike riders, but it's not good enough when the lack of a helmet outweighs the good they do. I dont have to ride one to see the harm car drivers can do to motorbikes. Paying attention to everyone on the roads shows that there is danger for all. That includes recklessness in motorbike riding as well. Why you would not want to protect yourself from being so vulnerable is not about being a rider and understanding.
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Old 07-15-2004, 03:38 AM   #21
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Originally posted by martha
Those of you with little to no motorcycle riding experience will be interested to read this. Maybe. The facts might interfere with some cherished opinions.
Hello Martha,

I don't want to sound too FYM-ish, but I do have some interesting counterpoints to the site of the (A) Brotherhood Against Totalitarian Enactments. It's also of note that ABATE's most recent info is from 1993.

In contrast, while the Trauma Foundation does have reports about the same time period they also have reports as recent as 2002 which show the dramatic decrease in fatalities and hospital costs for motorcycle accidents (and related to head injury).
Ironically, the site also has a link to a study that investigated the effects of the Helmet Law in Maryland that ABATE of Maryland does not mention. Here is a quote of its results and conclusion:
Results. The motorcyclist fatality rate dropped from 10.3 per 10 000 registered motorcycles prelaw to 4.5 postlaw despite almost identical numbers of registered motorcycles. Motorcyclists wearing helmets had a lower risk of traumatic brain injury than those not wearing helmets (odds ratio = 0.31, 95% confidence interval = 0.14, 0.68).

Conclusions. Marylandís controversial motorcycle helmet law appears to be an effective public health policy and may be responsible for saving many lives.
And as for reduced vision and hearing while wearing a helmet, the Trauma Foundation also has a link to a PDF document from the National Traffic Highway Safety Administration (which is I think part of the U.S. Department of Transportation) that shows that most riders automatically compensate for the slight loss in vision (by turning their heads more and that there was no significant difference in hearing sounds/signals. Granted, this research was done on a limited test group (50 persons), but the results might give a good indication.

In this respect I think the Helmet Laws are a lot like seatbelt laws. At first many oppose it by saying that it's dangerous so they don't have to go through the discomfort of using/wearing it. In the end it will turn out that it saves lives and that one get used to it quickly.

C ya!

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Old 07-15-2004, 04:22 AM   #22
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My best friend's brother in law was killed on his motorcycle. It scares the crap out of me that anyone would ride without a helmet, increasing their risk of putting their friends and family through what my friend and her family went through.
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Old 07-15-2004, 08:20 AM   #23
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1 -- LT, good on you for staying with the guy and doing what you did, that took a lot of strength some people don't have...

2 -- being an EMT who rides....
I dunno really. My state, MA, has a helmet law, while the neighboring state, NH, does not. Personally I hateHateHATE head-encompassing helmets, my own is a 1/4, leaves my ears out so I can still hear what's happening around me. Not quite a "turtleshell" or "brainbucket" but close.

On the ambulance I've been to a few bike crashes and in general if there wasn't a helmet, the head injuries get 'em and if there was a helmet they have a broken neck or something. Six of one, half dozen of t'other. 90% of the time if there's a fatality involving a motorcycle there was also a DUI, either the bike or another involved vehicle, and no helmet was gonna change anything.

Our freaking EMS office still can't make up its mind on whether to take the damned helmets off or not half the time, and most other folks I know who ride have stickers on that say 'do not remove helmet' in varying degrees of politeness, or lack thereof..

My own preference... I guess this should be past tense nowadays since my car crash in Dec 2000, have not been able to ride, but anyway..

this is gonna sound like the biggest wankfest ever... I like the helmet because anyone from New England who rides should be able to sympathize to a degree esp. at night... %$#@! moths, %@$#*$! JUNEBUGS, fricking grasshoppers, whatever those huge things are, cicadas... yellowjackets!!

there's times on short runs that yea I'd rather not wear the thing (it's HOT... just going a few miles... not going on the highway.. whatever.)

Guess what I'm getting at is, in my limited experience I haven't seen helmets make much of a difference in MC crashes. Bicycles? Huge, huge difference, I screech at people who don't wear helmets for bicycling esp. daily to work etc.
But for MC.. eh... the rest of you is going 50 mph or more, so what if your head is "protected", you're still going to get fubar if you drop it or crash.
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Old 07-15-2004, 10:48 AM   #24
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Originally posted by wolfeden

Guess what I'm getting at is, in my limited experience I haven't seen helmets make much of a difference in MC crashes. Bicycles? Huge, huge difference, I screech at people who don't wear helmets for bicycling esp. daily to work etc.
There's no reason NOT to wear a helmet biking. I've never known a bike helmet to interfere w/ hearing (personally, I can't hear anything going 20 mph anyway and have to turn my head) and as for vision, that's what rear view mirrors are for (yes, you can easily get them for your bike). In East Grand Rapids, which is a small city surrounded by my city (Grand Rapids) bike helmets are law and if you don't wear one you/your parents get ticketed. If you do, the police give you gift certificates to the ice cream shop.
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Old 07-15-2004, 10:54 AM   #25
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There are laws everywhere "restricting" our personal freedoms for our own safety. Motorcycle riders shouldn't be exempt.

To the point of this thread, watching a person die after a road accident is gut wrenching. I came up on a freeway accident a couple months back where the young man was thrown from his SUV (not wearing a seat belt).

Wear your seatbelt! Wear your helmet!
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Old 07-15-2004, 04:08 PM   #26
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Wear your seatbelt! Wear your helmet!

There is no doubt in my mind my brother probably would have died had he not been wearing a helmet.
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Old 07-15-2004, 07:13 PM   #27
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I'm not going to get into whether or not there should be motorcycle helmet laws. Sadly, when there are "public safety" laws they tend to be stupid, even when the intent is good. Nevertheless...

My brother is a long time motorcycle rider, and, yes, he rides in all conditions all year long. He has also raced them successfully (road racing -- as in not motocross), competing several times at the national level. He ALWAYS wears a helmet (and a leather jacket, leather gloves, long pants, and motorcycle boots -- helps limit road rash among other things), no matter how hot it is or how short the trip.

He's crashed several times while racing, had several broken bones, and had to replace many helmets, but no major head injuries. And a couple of years ago he was at a stop light just a few blocks from his house when he was slammed into from behind by an SUV. He and his bike were catapulted through the intersection and the person who hit him didn't even check to see if he was alive as he drove off (my brother was pretty sure it was a guy). The bike was totaled, my brother had a lot of road rash, was incredibly sore all over (so sprains and strains), and I'm pretty sure he had a concussion. And he had to replace yet another mangled helmet. But he did not then, nor has he ever had, a serious head injury.

I don't ride motorcycles, but I have ridden horses for many years (not currently as my horses are retired, and have no room for new ones as I keep them until they die), and I also always used a helmet whenever I rode, even though I was a very good rider and rarely ever fell. You know, I just figured it was wise to have some kind of protection should my head slam into the ground going 20 or so mph (of course, there was the ever popular broken neck to worry about, but there wasn't much I could do about that).

You know, in most cases, in a wreck involving a motorcycle in which the vehicles are going at highway speeds, wearing a helmet or not isn't going to make much difference. But I sure as hell want anyone I know who rides (anything, really) to give himself or herself the best possible chance for the best possible outcome. And I strongly believe a helmet helps accomplish that, even more than having an unobstructed view and hearing.

* by long time motocycle rider I mean 25 years or so.
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Old 07-15-2004, 07:43 PM   #28
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I see both sides of the argument and I guess if someone wants to ride without a helmet, it should be their choice. BUT...I would hope that if the rider has someone waiting at home who loves him/her, they would never consider riding without one.
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Old 07-15-2004, 08:27 PM   #29
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I think this is a bit like the euthanasia debate. If people want to kill themselves then they should do it with medical practitioners and/or people psyched into cleaning up the mess.

The average pedestrian/driver/rider shouldnt have to put up with seeing and/or attending to any more splattered bodies than there already are from the people who do wear helmets, seat belts etc.

Just my $0.02 worth but then Im hormonal and protective at the moment.

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