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Old 11-22-2004, 09:50 AM   #61
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Originally posted by Hewson
Big Ben deserved longer...his overreaction to the Artest foul precipitated the whole incident.
And whats important now is that many many Detroit Pissed-ons fans lose their season tix rights (if they were season tix holders) and are prosecuted and imprisoned for their actions...the video should help to identify the worst offenders, the 2 clowns who went on the floor and got decked respectively by Artest and O'Neal deserve to be punished, the idiot who started it by throwing the drink at Artest deserves jail time as do several others.
I agree about revoking season tickets, banning certain fans from NBA games, etc...but jail time? Who's gonna convict a guy for chucking a drink at someone?
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Old 11-22-2004, 10:25 AM   #62
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Yeah, I may be sticking up for my hometown, but hear me out.

How is this a disgrace for Detroit? In the long history of fan-player involvement, this is Detroit's first incident. They don't have the history of throwing items at players (batteries, dog bones, frozen snow balls, etc.) that other cities do. There's one moron who throws a paper cup, chaos ensues, but my question is: in what other major sports city would this incident NOT have occured? A player rushes into the stands and fans are going to go nuts. It happens. It happened here, and it would happen anywhere else. Detroit is not known for its taunting or unruly fans. We're just unfortunate enough to have this happen in our building.

Don't blame a few idiots for the reputation of an entire city.
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Old 11-22-2004, 10:59 AM   #63
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From Sean Deveney, sporting news columnist:

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Imagine being an employee who must sit in a chair while, a few feet over either shoulder, crowds of observers loudly register their opinions, mostly negative and sometimes grossly profane.

This is what NBA players do nightly. You must sit there and accept it, without confronting the observers in question — the verbal abuse is just part of the job. Now imagine that abuse turns physical. Instead of hurling epithets, the observers hurl objects. Maybe a bucket of popcorn, maybe a cup of beer. This is not part of the job. This is assault. What do you do?
Well, Sean, since you asked: I'd sit my butt in my chair and be grateful for getting paid more in one game than most people get paid in one year.

You know, I strongly considered sports writing as a career. I know realize that it never would have worked out. I'm not dumb enough.
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Old 11-22-2004, 12:20 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedracer


I agree about revoking season tickets, banning certain fans from NBA games, etc...but jail time? Who's gonna convict a guy for chucking a drink at someone?
Well chucking a drink (and lets face it, it ended up going way beyond that) is in fact an assault in the eyes of the law. So it is a crime punishable by jail time and/or fines etc.

And Stammer...how this varies from other incidents is simple...this escalated into an unreal scenario with dozens and dozens of fans attacking players with a combination of fists, malted and sugary beverages and salty snacks. If its a couple of yahoos, like most of the other incidents, well its a couple of yahoos...this was way more than that. Every Indiana player, coach, trainer etc. who tried to exit the floor was pummelled with various food and other items as they walked to the tunnel by many fans, not just a few, and this was after the other stuff, including fans running onto the playing floor to try to engage in physical altercations with Pacers' players.
This may even make me rethink the NY hockey fan and his "Drive a Porsche Hextall" chant as the most ignorant fan in all the land, Pissed-ons fans may now reign supreme in that.
Now I know its still only a small percentage of the overall fans, but its a much larger percentage than usual in these kind of incidents, and the behavior was much more egregious.
And I don't believe its Motown's first incident, John Saunders even mentioned getting hit by something thrown by a fan during a Dead Things game many years ago.
And as for "what should the fans have done?" Well aside from the fan that Artest went after and maybe his friends (if he had any) , the others should clear out and just let security diffuse the matter, much like you say the players should have not responded.
And as for the fan who started it, he should have acted like a New Yorker and just allowed Artest to beat him with his own shoe and the incident could have been over in a flash, with Artest getting a well deserved 25 game suspension to promote his rap album "How to Dismantle an Atomic Crowd", while most everyone else comes away unscathed.
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Old 11-22-2004, 12:29 PM   #65
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I see your points, Hewson, but I still think this same thing could have happened in almost any other city. I've attended many sporting events in many cities across the country, and Detroit fans (which obviously I've had the most contact with) are no different than any others. It's hard to judge Detroit fans when something like this incident is unprecedented.
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Old 11-23-2004, 10:16 AM   #66
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things like this can happen anywhere... if it happened in new york, it would have been a disgrace to new york and the garden... if it happened in boston, it would have been a disgrace to boston and the fleet center. it just so happened to have taken place in indiana

in fact there have been two incidents at the garden before this one... the 1979 boston bruins storming the garden stands



and the bowe-golotta fight


but this incident is still far and away worse than either of those two... in the incident at the garden with the boston bruins, a few players were actually physicaly assaulted... not just hit with a rinky dink plastic cup. in the bowe fight, the riot started in the ring and spilled out ring side, but it was largely controlled in the stands... plus, that's boxing. you expect wacky stuff at boxing matches.

this incident is still far and away the most disgusting thing i've ever seen. the fans of detroit were disgusting... but frankly, i still put full blame on ron artest.

--it was his useless cheap shot foul that started the initial skirmish.

--it was his yapping away with morons in the stands while laying on the scorer's table that insighted the cup tossing. watch the original ESPN video of the event... you can clearly see artest yelling back and forth with fans for a good 5 minutes before he jumped off the scorers table and decided to attack the wrong man.

--it was his utter lack of self control that turned a simple on the court incident into an absolute riot.

i wanted artest thrown out of the league for good... but i never expected that to happen. i didn't even expect stern to suspend him for the season... seeing as i got that much, i'm happy with the penalty.
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Old 11-23-2004, 10:40 AM   #67
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Artest's Induction Ceremony
by Bill Simmons- The Sports Guy

Editor's Note: This article appears in the December 6 issue of ESPN The Magazine.

Someone needs to build a Hall of Fame for Jaw-Dropping TV Nights. My original induction class would include O.J.'s Bronco Chase -- the Babe Ruth of this idea -- the second Tyson-Holyfield fight, Lady Di's accident and the night Gordon Jump tried to molest Dudley and Arnold on Diff'rent Strokes. Those were always the Big Four, at least for me.

Now I have a Big Five.

The Pistons-Pacers melee nailed every category on the Hall of Fame checklist. Will you always remember where you watched it? (Check.) Did you know history was being made? (Check.) Would you have fought anyone who tried to change the channel? (Check.) Did your head start to ache after a while? (Check.) Did your stomach feel funny? (Check.) Did you end up watching about four hours too long? (Check.) Were there a few can-you-believe-this-type phone calls along the way? (Check.) Did you say, "I can't believe this," at least 50 times? (Check.)

My buddy House called as things were winding down, sounding twice as excited as he did the night he called to inform me that he'd just seen Heather Graham in a late-night Skinemax movie. I flicked on ESPN in time to see about 400 Pistons fans bathing Jermaine O'Neal in beer and soda. Whaaaaaaaaaat? The Sports Gal and I delayed dinner plans so I could analyze the replays like a police chief. Eventually she realized we weren't leaving the house, so she made herself a sandwich and headed upstairs to Google divorce lawyers. Meanwhile, I was frantically toggling ESPN channels, recording clips and reveling in ludicrous sound bites -- like Pistons CEO Tom Wilson using the he-was-asking-for-it gambit against Ron Artest.

It was quite a night. I mean, Rasheed Wallace was the voice of reason. The initial altercation was good enough by itself. Ben Wallace unleashing the greatest two-handed shove to the face in sports history. Stephen Jackson challenging everyone on the Pistons, defiantly pulling his jersey from his shorts and waving his hands like Ricardo Mayorga. Artest inflaming the situation by lounging on the scorer's table like a kid protesting a trip to the dentist until the cup of beer nailed him -- this is my favorite part -- and he raced into the stands to fight the wrong fans. The real culprit was three rows farther back -- and yes, I figured this out after a six-hour TiVo session. I'm telling you, this tape is a poor man's Zapruder film. If only Jamaal Tinsley had crawled along the scorer's table in a pink dress.

The chaos quickly spiraled even further out of control in the stands, leading to 16 straight hours of I-thought-the-Vibe-Awards-broke-out jokes. Jackson landed a haymaker on an unlucky bystander (and future millionaire). Poor Fred Jones got attacked by Fat Albert. Two dumpy losers charged Artest on the court, leading to O'Neal's perfect right cross, a scene vaguely reminiscent of Swan protecting his gang against the Baseball Furies in The Warriors. Pistons fans lobbed beer like grenades (except the one who pulled a Frankie Francisco), determined to wrestle the unruliest-fans-in-sports title from Philly. After it was over, when Rick Carlisle told a quivering Jim Gray, "I felt like I was fighting for my life," you knew he meant it.

Five hours later, I was still watching. Even stayed up for the overnight replay on ESPN2. And sure, the Sports Gal was bringing out a coil of rope and measuring the distance between the ceiling and the floor, but I didn't care. This was the most memorable regular-season game ever. Why should we pretend it wasn't great theater? It would be like acting surprised that Artest and Jackson -- the looniest pair of teammates in the league -- were involved in the worst NBA incident in 27 years.

Look, I'm not comfortable with what happened, but I'm a realist. The NBA has been straddling this line for years: crazy players, boozed-up crowds, everyone on top of one another. Throw in a sense of entitlement for some fans -- they take escalating ticket prices and mind-boggling salaries as a free pass to belittle players -- and this was inevitable. If the league truly wants to prevent riots, why does it sell beer after halftime? Why let drunken troublemakers sneak down into premium seats? Why aren't policemen protecting the visitors bench? If they don't change the rules after this, forget $5 lottery tickets; you're better off buying $125 tickets to an NBA game, getting bombed and baiting opposing players into a lawsuit.

But that's for another time. Let's focus on what's important -- like waving the five-year waiting period and inducting the melee into the Jaw-Dropping TV Night Hall of Fame right now.

If Ron Artest has to give his acceptance speech from prison, so be it.
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Old 11-23-2004, 12:20 PM   #68
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things like this can happen anywhere... if it happened in new york, it would have been a disgrace to new york and the garden... if it happened in boston, it would have been a disgrace to boston and the fleet center. it just so happened to have taken place in indiana
Actually this took place in Detroit.

And you need a better pic from the Bruins incident, you need a quality shot of Milbury beating the guy with his own shoe.
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Old 11-23-2004, 05:23 PM   #69
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Originally posted by Hewson
Actually this took place in Detroit.

And you need a better pic from the Bruins incident, you need a quality shot of Milbury beating the guy with his own shoe.
indiana, detroit... same thing.
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Old 11-23-2004, 06:45 PM   #70
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if i can be blunt for a second, all of these player agents and commentators can really suck on my balls...

if i work at mcdonalds, and i jump over the counter and beat the shit out of somebody because they threw their happy meal back in my face... my ass is gonna be fired and i'm never gonna my job back...

yet all these a-holes are "uncomfortable" with a years suspension.

so again... pardon my language... but suck my balls.
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Old 11-23-2004, 10:15 PM   #71
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very true. I think that punk Jackson should have gotten a year too. He had no reason to jump up there and punch a guy when most of his teammates were trying to break it up.

By the way, anyone see that big dude in the grey shirt who grabbed Jones and started punching him. That was Ben Wallace's brother.
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Old 11-24-2004, 08:07 AM   #72
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That was Ben Wallace's brother.
really? lol well that kinda makes sense then
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Old 11-24-2004, 11:42 AM   #73
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Ya I laughed to when I heard it. Maybe they were joking, but Stu Scott said it on Sportscenter and someone also said it on ESPN News.
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