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Old 11-19-2004, 09:18 PM   #16
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Originally posted by macphisto23
what the heck was that fan doing on the floor in the first place, dude we cant just blame the players, there both to blame. the drunk fans for screwing off, and the fricken players.
fuck that... i've had stuff thrown at me as a player, i've had stuff thrown at me now as a coach... i have never entered the stands... the thought of entering the stands has never even entered my mind.

the fans were disgraceful... beyond disgraceful. towards the end of the mele some fan picked up a chair and lobbed it. the fan who threw the original cup should be arrested. the fan who threw the chair should be arrested. but god damn it, so should ron artest, jermaine o'neal and stephen jackson.

and holy mother of god if i hear one more announcer say that the players have it so bad because they get taunted and have stuff thrown at them... THEY MAKE 15 MILLION A FRIGGIN YEAR!!! THE FAN PAYS HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS PER GAME TO SEE THESE PRIMADONNAS.

Does any fan have the right to throw something on the court/field? Hell no... he should be arrested on the spot. But by no means do you EVER go into the stands over something like a thrown plastic cup.

and the fan who was on the court... yea... fine... he was tresspassing. but he was only about 5 feet from teh baseline seats, and he wasn't throwing any punches. in such a brawl where fans and 6'8" players are flying threw the stands, it's common sense that some of the fans from that area are going to spill out onto the court, simply by trying to avoid getting crushed by the mob. the two guys who were sucker punched by jermaine o'neal and ron artest were NOT throwing punches, cups, beer bottles, anything.

the word professional is supposed to mean something. amature players get taunted by drunken fans... get hit with random objects. they are expected to remain on the court and not fight the fans. a professional athlete?? you've got to be kidding me. he was hit in the chest with a lobbed PLASTIC CUP. A PLASTIC CUP... this was not glass, this was not a beer bottle, this was not a chair... yet.

This disgraceful incident starts and ends with one man... Ron Artest.

Ron Artest was already considered to be the dirtiest player in the league. I've said before in a thread in here about fighting in sports... the only time I'm fighting is if someone fouls me hard from behind. That's exactly what Artest did to Ben Wallace. Some may say Wallace over-reacted. Bullshit. When the player who's considered to be the dirtiest player in the league hits you while you're in mid air... from behind... without making a play on the ball... what would YOU do? Of course Wallace is gonna confront Artest. The Pacers were up 15 points when this happened... let me repeat that... The Pacers were up 15 poitns when this happened. There is no reason to foul Ben Wallace in that situation, with under a minute to go, PERIOD... let alone a hard foul from behind. Artest lets Wallace score, the Pacers lead by 13 points with under a minute to go. The game is over, no fight happens.

Move on to how the incident got uglier... Ron Artest, like the nut job that he is, is now laying down on the scorers table as the rest of his team fights a fight that he started. A fan hits artest with A PLASTIC CUP. If Artest alerts security or the police, the fan is ejected and/or arrested, they finish the game, they go home. OVER. END OF INCIDENT. This didn't turn into an all time black eye until the point that Ron Artest went into the stands. Artest and Artest alone is to blame for turning a bad situation into the worst incidents in NBA history.

And to make things evern worse... Artest hit the wrong guy. The older guy in the white had in the video is the one who threw the cup. Artest stormed the stands and hit some 18-24 year old kid square in the face. He hit the wrong person. He hit an innocent bystander.
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Old 11-19-2004, 09:27 PM   #17
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headache, this should make you feel better, one of the guys on the fsn rocky mountain sports report finally took a stand and said artest deserved to be suspended for a year, and should face legal action, and the other commentators agreed.
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Old 11-19-2004, 09:32 PM   #18
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It ain't cool to get hit by stuff that fans throw...but I agree, Artest going into the stands incited a near riot atmosphere in that building.

That is a serious situation that should have serious consequnces!

Didn't Axl Rose get arrested for inciting a riot in Montreal??
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Old 11-19-2004, 09:33 PM   #19
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this isn't a one time incident for artest... he has a history of ugly incidents and it's about time that the league dropped the hammer on him BIG time.

and i have to give props to the former craziest man in the NBA, rasheed wallace, for being the biggest peacemaker in this entire ugly incident.
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Old 11-19-2004, 09:45 PM   #20
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Ron artest is a fucking idiot who wants to be Dennis Rodman and hes a punk. This is incredible, I watched the whole replay just now rooting for the fans to clock him in the face. I dont blame any of those fans for doing that, and those ESPN fuckers should all be fired for their comments. Oh, the brave pacers for sticking up for their players, why can't Detroit be good fans and stick up to their fellow fans? That's not allowed, but O'Neil and Jackson jumping in the crowd to swing at fans is being a great teammate.
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Old 11-19-2004, 09:48 PM   #21
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Those guys on ESPN said artest did nothing wrong. ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? He cheap shoted Ben Wallace with 30 secs left when up by like 20 points, and then jumps in and goes after the wrong fan!!! Ya, nothing...I just laughed when all the fans lined up and threw stuff at O'Neal and Artest. The chair was way out of line and it's a disgrace it came to all this, but Artest deserved what he got. So did the Pistons fans, especially the guys who ran onto court to swing at him. Still, to put the blame only on the fans of Detroit is ridiculous.
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Old 11-19-2004, 11:42 PM   #22
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I just saw the replay on SportsCenter. I am close to crying...I have never seen such a frightening thing at a sports event in my life, and I've watched plenty of Yankees-Red Sox games!

What really gets to me was when some players were leaving the court, and people were throwing beer, popcorn, etc. at them like they were animals. That said, players should not go into the stands and punch out fans. Let security take care of unruly "fans"--that's their job.

And Headache--remember how Knicks fans went crazy when Frederick Weis was drafted by them instead of Ron Artest? Maybe the Dolans knew what they were doing for once!
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Old 11-20-2004, 01:28 AM   #23
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I wish the cops would come after at least Artest. What a bunch of fucking thugs. And the guys on ESPN are almost as bad. I hope there is some serious backlash coming their way when this hits big time tomorrow.
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Old 11-20-2004, 05:51 AM   #24
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I am so embarrassed to be waking up to this today, yet another black eye for Detroit
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Old 11-20-2004, 07:27 AM   #25
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Perhaps Ron Artest should have taken up his issues with Pistons superfan Chris Chelios, who was also sitting courtside.
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Old 11-20-2004, 07:38 AM   #26
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well after having even more time to review it... it's still the most dispicable thing i've ever seen a pro athlete do. to respond like that to a thrown cup of beer is absolutely disgraceful. SportsCenter showed a different angle of Artest while he was laying on the scorer's table... the entire team he's laying there he's picking his head up and yelling back at the fans... this went on for a good 5 minutes... artest and the fans yelling at each other. then the plastic cup of beer was thrown... and then artest moved on from an idiot to a complete psychopath... along with his cohorts stephen jackson and jermaine o'neal.

if i was the commissioner of the NBA...

Ben Wallace... 5 game suspension for fighting.
Jamal Tinsley... 15 game suspension for attempting to use a dust pan as a weapon
Jermaine O'Neal... season suspension for attacking fans
Stephen Jackson... season suspension for attacking fans
Ron Artest... life suspension for insiting a riot, attacking fans, etc. etc. Chance for reinstation after 2 seasons.

The NBA... it's faaaaaantastic.
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Old 11-20-2004, 07:41 AM   #27
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and i have to give a whole bunch of kudos to chris "mad dog" russo on WFAN in New York for trashing all of the reporters and announcers for defending ron artest's actions.
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Old 11-20-2004, 09:36 AM   #28
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the worst is Tim Legler, that bastard. Joe Dumars came out and said the best thing all night, he basically said "everyone is at fault. The pistons, the fans of detroit, but so are the pacers." What an intelligent statement. Then Legler calls him "ridiculous" saying that players have the right to jump in the crowd if they get thrown beer at. How is Tim Legler going to criticize Joe Dumars? That's like Milli Vanilli ridiculing Bono's vocal skills.

The biggest punk is that kid Jackson on the pacers, what a loser, he was stepping up to Ben Wallace only because his people were holding him back, Wallace would have split him in two. But then again, he'll be out of the league in two years anyway so he might as well get his two mins. of fame in.
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Old 11-20-2004, 09:42 AM   #29
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Here's a poll on ESPN about the brawl. The results so far:
________

1) Was this the ugliest incident of fan-player violence you can recall?

83.0% Yes
17.0% No

2) Which was the worst incident between fans and players?

67.7% Ron Artest and Pacers battle Detroit fans in the stands
26.1% Royals coach Tom Gamboa attacked on field in Chicago
6.2% Texas pitcher Frank Francisco throws chair into stands

3) Who is most to blame for Friday night's brawl in Detroit?

49.6% Detroit fans
35.9% Ron Artest
8.7% Ben Wallace
5.2% Detroit security
0.6% Referees

4) Do you fault Ron Artest for going into the stands after being hit from close range by a full cup of beer and other items?

56.2% Yes, he has to have a cooler head and let security handle it.
43.8% No, any person has a right to defend him or herself in that situation.


5) Do you fault other Pacers players for going into the stands after Artest reacted?

54.0% No, they've got to protect a teammate.
46.0% Yes, they weren't attacked but they escalated the situation.

6) What should happen to Ben Wallace?

54.0% Suspended 1-5 games
17.0% Monetary fine but no suspension
16.0% Suspended 6-10 games
13.1% Suspended more than 10 games


7) What should happen to Ron Artest?

44.6% Suspended more than 10 games
24.2% Suspended 1-5 games
17.6% Suspended 6-10 games
13.6% Monetary fine but no suspension

8) What should happen to Stephen Jackson?

36.8% Suspended more than 10 games
28.9% Suspended 1-5 games
21.3% Suspended 6-10 games
13.0% Monetary fine but no suspension


9) Should local authorities use videotape to prosecute unruly fans on any applicable charges relating to Friday's game?


59.3% Yes, anyone throwing anything at players or personnel
34.4% Yes, but only those involved in physical violence
6.2% No, keep it out of those kind of courts

10) How much of a role did alcohol play in Friday's brawl escalating out of control?

49.9% Somewhat responsible
36.2% Largely responsible
13.9% Barely played a role


11) When should beer sales end at NBA games?

40.4% After third quarter
38.4% Halftime
21.3% End of the game


12) Have you ever had too much to drink at a sporting event?

72.4% No
27.6% Yes

13) Should the NBA consider nearby neutral sites like Toledo, Louisville or Cincinnati for future Pistons-Pacers games?

81.6% No
18.4% Yes

14) Are fans hypocritical for blasting a loss of sportsmanship among professional athletes?

51.3% Yes. Have you been to a game lately? Fans have lost all civility.
48.7% No. It's only a small percentage of fans, compared to a larger percentage of athletes.

15) What did you think of the foul by Artest that started the incident?

40.0% It was a hard foul but that's about it.
33.7% Cheap shot. What was he doing fouling at all at that point?
26.3% Wallace was just sore about the score; fouls like that happen all the time.


16) What should happen to Jermaine O'Neal?

30.6% Suspended 1-5 games
27.0% Suspended more than 10 games
24.8% Monetary fine but no suspension
17.5% Suspended 6-10 games


Total Votes: 114,062
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Old 11-20-2004, 11:21 AM   #30
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Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
and i have to give a whole bunch of kudos to chris "mad dog" russo on WFAN in New York for trashing all of the reporters and announcers for defending ron artest's actions.
The Mad Dog had Steven A. Smith on and when asked how many games Ben Wallace should be suspended, Smith responded (I think) 3-5 games. RUSSO just about laughed at him. Then Smith became smart and said Jackson could be gone for the season.....

Yet another classic Saturday Mad Dog rant (1st the Boston parade) and now this.....
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