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Old 08-12-2005, 09:15 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by boosterjuice
I sum it up like this:

Bad Music:
a)Music striving for profit. The music no longer has become about art but rather is about packaging and marketing.
b) Music has poor melodies configured. ie(determined by chord structuring)


Good Music:
a)Music that has an underlying purpose that is greater than money.
b)There is a connection between the song and the artist.
Now you're crossing into the attitude arena of why music is good/bad.

David Bowie has freely admitted he made pop songs in the early 80's to make $ and get chart positions. Does this mean "Modern Love" is bad by proxy? NO, it has the intention of being a hit, and is also wonderful music.
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Old 08-12-2005, 09:38 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrBrau1


Now you're crossing into the attitude arena of why music is good/bad.

David Bowie has freely admitted he made pop songs in the early 80's to make $ and get chart positions. Does this mean "Modern Love" is bad by proxy? NO, it has the intention of being a hit, and is also wonderful music.
I agree with you as well.. this discussion is confusing my head. Maybe it is just down to personal taste
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Old 08-12-2005, 10:26 AM   #18
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I think to some degree the difference between "good" and "bad" music, or any other form of art, is subjective. But I also think there's a line you have to draw somewhere. Look at it this way, you wouldn't put a Harelequin romance on the same level artistically as "Romeo and Juliet" or the works of Jane Austen and the Bronte sisters, would you?
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Old 08-12-2005, 11:43 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrBrau1


Now you're crossing into the attitude arena of why music is good/bad.

David Bowie has freely admitted he made pop songs in the early 80's to make $ and get chart positions. Does this mean "Modern Love" is bad by proxy? NO, it has the intention of being a hit, and is also wonderful music.
Okay, so Mr. Bowie admitted that he made those pop songs for money. I'm not saying that it's bad music. Was his underlying motive solely for money?? Probably not. Only Bowie knows the answer.

I think that the artists are the only ones who truly know if they produce bad music.
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Old 08-12-2005, 12:03 PM   #20
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what's good to you is good to you
what's bad to you is bad to you
all the rest is posturing and conjecture, but if we didn't do that it wouldn't be much fun to talk about music.

I dont think that means you shouldnt argue about whats good and whats not, or stand up for what you believe to be better music but there is no tangible argument that automatically makes Radiohead better than Celine Dion other than personal preference. And I echo Brau's sentiment about "attitude" music.
I think for most on this board, a U2 board that comparison would seem to be obvious, but again it's just a preference for a certain sound.
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Old 08-12-2005, 12:24 PM   #21
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 'this is some horrendous piece of music...'

Quote:
Originally posted by u2popmofo


Ahhhhhh, got it. That makes more sense! I completely agree.

I knew you were making fun of the idea that radio stations only play "what is good", but then I actually thought you really were arguing the popularity thing. That's why I asked, I figured I might just be mistaken! Glad I asked!
Glad I could clear that up!!
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Old 08-12-2005, 12:42 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bono's shades
I think to some degree the difference between "good" and "bad" music, or any other form of art, is subjective. But I also think there's a line you have to draw somewhere. Look at it this way, you wouldn't put a Harelequin romance on the same level artistically as "Romeo and Juliet" or the works of Jane Austen and the Bronte sisters, would you?
Very good point, I agree. Someone with an understanding of any art should be able to see that it takes a lot more effort and talent to create something complex and beautiful with deeper themes than it takes to make something that instantly gratifies but provides little to nothing else, but the vast majority of people dont have or are not interested in developing this "understanding" of the art form. Everyone "likes" music, but not everyone likes music (if that makes any sense).

Unfortunately, how is it possible to really make this standard (good vs bad, complex vs simple, beauty vs bland)? While some of us may think a band such as Sigur Ros really creates true "art and beauty" in their work, your average person would just give one of the great modern equalizers as an impression like "it sucks" or "this is weird". Though I've tried, I've yet to find a way to prove that one side is truely right or wrong. I had a former roommate who always said this, "There are only 2 types of music, music I like and music I dislike. I like this." As simple and seemingly shallow that arguement is, it's honeslty impossible to refute (though I and my other roommate sure would try).

Anyways, this thread has really been interesting. Lots of good points and comments.
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Old 08-12-2005, 01:24 PM   #23
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Originally posted by {paintedroses}


I agree with you as well.. this discussion is confusing my head. Maybe it is just down to personal taste

You were right with your first post my friend. I still like your summary the best.
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Old 08-13-2005, 01:32 AM   #24
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I just want to put in a mention for 'McFly' here for the one who mentioned them on the last page...

I am FAR too old to have any interest whatsoever in them, but they are bizarrely not as bad as everyone makes out. If you listen to some of their stuff, it's kind of like early-mid 60's Beatles but made for teenagers today and obviously not striving to be Lennon-McCartney...

I really can't have an opinion on the question discussed here, it's far too vague...!
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Old 08-13-2005, 02:43 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by gareth brown
I just want to put in a mention for 'McFly' here for the one who mentioned them on the last page...

I am FAR too old to have any interest whatsoever in them, but they are bizarrely not as bad as everyone makes out. If you listen to some of their stuff, it's kind of like early-mid 60's Beatles but made for teenagers today and obviously not striving to be Lennon-McCartney...
I know what you mean, they aren't THAT bad.. maybe if they focussed their songwriting efforts on something less aimed at 10 year old girls they might be on to something

I like the song "It's All About You" But it was for charity!! So thats ok, right??!
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Old 08-13-2005, 10:37 AM   #26
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Personal taste. Good/bad music is in the ear of the beholder.

I don't necessarily belive in the "popular=bad" theory.
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Old 08-13-2005, 11:25 AM   #27
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1) i judge the passion in their music and performances (you can't get a more passionate singer than Bono and that makes up for his aging voice when it goes on some songs)

2) The technical ability. How well they play the instruments and how well it sounds in general.

3) The songwriting ability. You have to have good lyrics or else the whole thing comes undone in my opinion. I am moved by the way some artists pen their emotions, their beliefs, their politics, their causes, etc.

4) music that can change the world

5) music that is unique, that is created on a total original level, music that can't be imitated. People can imitate Celine Dion and other crap people, but no one can imitate people like U2, Radiohead, Queen, Zepplin, just to name a few.

These are a few of my reasons.
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Old 08-13-2005, 11:48 AM   #28
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Re: 'this is some horrendous piece of music...'

Quote:
Originally posted by all_i_want
the question is, what is good music? how can we know that we are listening to objectively good, quality music?
The difference is as simple as the difference between modernist and postmodernist approaches to "art." Modernists would argue that there is objective approaches to what is "high" or "low art." Postmodernism, on the other hand, would probably argue that everything is art.

Of course, modernists thought the only "good music" was classical music. When jazz came into the picture, they thought it was disposable, and they most certainly would find all contemporary music to be disposable too.

For this reason, I side with the postmodernist approach to music and art; that is, something is "good" only if we believe it to be and that is fully subjective.

[/end of FYM-like essay]

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Old 08-13-2005, 01:25 PM   #29
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bad music = anything done by someone who doesn't feel what they're doing. Bowie might've deliberately skewed his writing towards a specific pop sound purely for the profit, but it was still Bowie all over and he still put his heart into performing it.

but even this is subjective.
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Old 08-16-2005, 06:53 AM   #30
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Was it bob dylan who said there are only two kinds of music, death music and healing music? I don't even know what that means for sure, but it sounds good.

Someone somewhere also said that good art can never be depressing, and bad art can never be anything but depressing.
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