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Old 10-09-2007, 02:01 AM   #196
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Joe Torre is one of the great managers/coaches of our time, of any sport. Steinbrenner would be a fool to get rid of him.

I predict hard times ahead for the Yankees without Torre.

Not that I have a problem with that.
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Old 10-09-2007, 06:59 AM   #197
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Originally posted by zoney!
Who else is going to stay up for the Alyssa Milano appearance after the game?
Damn, I went to bed too soon.
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Old 10-09-2007, 07:39 AM   #198
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Apparently four titles and an average of 98 wins per year over 12 years constitute a "mixed legacy". Wow.
Quite ridiculous.

I think Torre was going to walk away all along after this year. He's got nothing to prove to anyone anymore.
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Old 10-09-2007, 07:44 AM   #199
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If anyone should have a "mixed legacy", its Cashman and the front office, not Torre.
Some of the personnel moves the past few seasons have hamstrung Torre...you can't blame Torre for the Carl Pavanos, Jaret Wrights, Steroid Giambis, Bad Back Units etc.

You can blame him for throwing Wang on 3 days rest for the first time in his life last night after the Indians had rocked him in game 1, while Mussina was reasonably effective.

If Mussina starts, we are talking about game 5 right now in all likelihood.
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Old 10-09-2007, 08:27 AM   #200
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I feel bad for Torre. I've always hated the Yankees for as long as I've been a baseball fan, but I've never had anything against Torre. He's a good guy. If the Cubs didn't have sweet Lou, I'd want Torre as our manager.
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Old 10-09-2007, 09:26 AM   #201
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ahh october. it's sort of nice watching from a neutral spot, not having to sit through the gut wrenching drama that, no matter what the outcome, is gonna have you struggling through work the next day, win or lose.

but it ain't that nice...

alas... the 4 best teams all won. the two teams that were the best in the AL all year, one of the two teams who was the best in the NL all year and the team that played the best in the last two months of the season. tons of young players involved on all four teams, esp. cleveland, arizona and colorado. and better yet... three small market teams (and a fourth who thinks they are ).

The Phillies poor pitching was exposed in the playoffs, as expected. One would think the mets bullpen issues would have been equally exposed. Perhaps this choke was a blessing in disguise... the money that I would have spent on tickets I instead spent on money lines, winning all four serieses. go chokes!

The thing you have to love about Arizona, Colorado and Cleveland is that they play the right way... first and second with no outs? They bunt... unlike, say, the Yankees or Mets who go by the lame excuse of "i want [insert suposed superstar here] swinging the bat in that situation." boo fucking hoo... the yankees always play for the big hit. they never play for just the one run, and that's why they lose in October. you can't play like and expect it to work forever. boston did it to 'em in 2004, cleveland did it to 'em this year. playoff baseball is won with pitching and small ball. the yankees haven't done either well since 2001. this is why they lose.

as for joe torre? well... the man was a moron when they hired him. he'll be a genius when they fire him. that's the way it goes sometimes... it's easy to forget how the decision to fire showalter in favor of torre, who was a failure everywhere he'd been before the yankees, was lambasted by media and fans alike. if they never would have made the decision, buck showalter could very well be heading to cooperstown right now and joe torre would still be a mediocre manager, bouncing from job to job. pedro gets a few outs, they're building statues of grady little in boston right now. sometimes the line between legend and bum in coaching is that thin.

lastly... what annoys me the most is the media and fans talking like the yankees choked. no they didn't. they lost to a better team. the mets choked. the yankees in 2004 choked (even though boston was just as good). this yankee team lost to a better team, plain and simple.

i will now go and take all my winnings from the LDS' and piss it away on something stupid.

oh... one more thing.

a met fan today has already come up to me all giddy that the yankees lost. now i am a mets fan, and i'd like to punch the guy in the face (figuritively speaking of course... i'd prefer not to go to jail).

when another team loses and the team you root for had nothing to do with it and you get all giddy, it's kinda sad.

that's all.
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Old 10-09-2007, 09:37 AM   #202
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^ everything makes sense there, except for that part about Grady Little
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Old 10-09-2007, 11:09 AM   #203
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Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase

when another team loses and the team you root for had nothing to do with it and you get all giddy, it's kinda sad.


but still very enjoyable
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Old 10-09-2007, 11:25 AM   #204
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and highly pathetic at the same time.
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Old 10-09-2007, 11:28 AM   #205
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I was definitely one of the Yankee fans who was upset when Showalter was axed and Torre was hired. At the time, it seemed insane. The Yanks had been through some really bad years, I mean last place bad, and had finally reached the post-season after a 13 year drought. Now, of course, in hindsight, it's easy to see all the positive things about Torre that were not so obvious from a distance then. It's disapponting to me that he'll not get to leave completely on his terms, as that much success should earn you the right to a little bit of slack. But, that's the Bronx, for better or worse.

Headache as usual makes a lot of good points. I agree that saying the Yanks "choked" is insane. They lost to a really good team, fair and square. To call it a shock takes away from what the Indians did, and that's lame.

As for fans who get giddy when a team loses and their team is playing golf again, what can you say? The Yanks are polarizing, and if I'm going to hate Duke, or the Cowboys, then I have to be philosophical about Yankee hatred. Hell, when the Mets collapsed, I enjoyed it a little, but, I sure didn't yell from the rooftops about it, or even post about it, mostly out of respect for Headache. If/when Boston loses, and I sure hope they do, I'll again keep my mouth mostly shut, because of Hewson, Phanan, Randhail, etc. What sucks is that the Sox aint losing to anyone, fuckers.
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Old 10-09-2007, 11:31 AM   #206
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Originally posted by No spoken words
What sucks is that the Sox aint losing to anyone, fuckers.
i wouldn't be so quick on that one...

red sox certainly should be favored, but i'll be very interested to check out the money lines.

in fact, i believe i'll do that right now...
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Old 10-09-2007, 11:51 AM   #207
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Obviously, Cleveland has a great 1-2 punch with Sabathia and Carmona. I think because the games are at Fenway Park will help offset that a bit.

Game 1 could very well be a 1-0 or 2-1 score, and it could go either way. As for Game 2, despite being in Boston, you have to give the edge to the Indians unless Dice-K pulls off something special.

Game 3 features Schilling. You have to like the Red Sox there.

Game 4 should be a wild one. Byrd against Wakefield most likely, unless his back keeps him out again, in which case it would be Lester.

I could see this series going the full 7, and if it does, the Red Sox would have Schilling for that one.
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Old 10-09-2007, 12:07 PM   #208
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Hell, when the Mets collapsed, I enjoyed it a little, but, I sure didn't yell from the rooftops about it, or even post about it, mostly out of respect for Headache.
I did. Repeatedly. I think I was justified as a Phillies fan, though.
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Old 10-09-2007, 12:14 PM   #209
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I did. Repeatedly. I think I was justified as a Phillies fan, though.
the team you root for was a direct benefit of the choking, thus... justified.

met fans taking joy that the yankees lost? unjustified.

red sox fans taking joy that the yankees lost? mistaken justification... the indians are better, they should have wanted the yankees to win.
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Old 10-09-2007, 12:15 PM   #210
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all i know is that if carmona pitches like he did the other night that the indians have two wins right off the bat
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