The Super Terrific MLB Thread - Part 2

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Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!! Good for Bonds.

The whole country cheered on Mark McGwire when he was breaking and broke the season record even seeing he was as big as a house. Everybody knew and nobody cared. I guess they liked his attitude better.
 
I was at a sushi place and I saw it live, the whole bar went crazy..

I was excited :hyper:

and jeeze they had 20 security guards around that guy, I remember SC was talking about the ball like a week ago and they said it'll go for 3.2 mil when he hits it
 
BonosSaint said:
Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!! Good for Bonds.

The whole country cheered on Mark McGwire when he was breaking and broke the season record even seeing he was as big as a house. Everybody knew and nobody cared. I guess they liked his attitude better.

At the time, McGwire claimed to be using only androstenedione, which was legal under both Federal law and baseball rules.

After the publication of Juiced and McGwire's performance in front of Congress, he has definitely paid the price (at least for now).
 
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Steroids don't make you a home run hitter. Steroids don't make you big and strong. You still have to do the workouts and training, it helps your body recover so you can train harder than others. Bonds has done nothing that others weren't doing. He was just a better athlete. He still has to have the hand-eye coordination,skill and mental strength to hit the ball year after year. Granted, his extra strength has turned some flyouts in big parks into homeruns but he isn't the only one to be dabbling in the juice.

So good for him, even though he is a jerk.
 
Yay Barry. Boo Barry. Whatever. I'm purely indifferent about the whole thing. Lets just move on. Thank God no more constant ESPN coverage, no more Sportscenter cutins, and hopefully no more Pedro Gomez.
 
What's great about all of this is that one day, barring injury, Alex Rodriguez will break this record. Whether or not he does it as a Yankee remains to be seen, but when he does, no one will give a shit about Bonds and his alleged Shenangans.
 
randhail said:
Yay Barry. Boo Barry. Whatever. I'm purely indifferent about the whole thing. Lets just move on. Thank God no more constant ESPN coverage, no more Sportscenter cutins, and hopefully no more Pedro Gomez.

You'll hear a lot about 756 for the next few weeks:wink:
 
speedracer said:


At the time, McGwire claimed to be using only androstenedione, which was legal under both Federal law and baseball rules.

After the publication of Juiced and McGwire's performance in front of Congress, he has definitely paid the price (at least for now).

McGwire juiced, took a performance enhancing product. Isn't the point of all the supposed complaints that Bonds took a performance enhancing products? Cocaine is illegal both federally and in baseball. I don't see any astericks for cocaine users.

Legality isn't the question. Designer performance enhancing drugs are created all the time and it takes time for both the feds and baseball to catch up.

If I'm correct, at the time of the Congressional hearings, McGwire
no longer held the single season homerun record ( a record he held for about 10 minutes) and had no significance in the record books. The press and the public will flex their newfound sense of moral outrage as they will.

Baseball doesn't need records to be broken right now for its financial security. When it does again, it will look the other way. When fans want the excitement again of a broken record, they will look the other way. And when the fans want the press to share their excitement, the press will look the other way. All this moral flexing is such a joke.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_walter_b_070808_no_asterisks_for_bar.htm
 
trevster2k said:
Steroids don't make you a home run hitter. Steroids don't make you big and strong. You still have to do the workouts and training, it helps your body recover so you can train harder than others. Bonds has done nothing that others weren't doing. He was just a better athlete. He still has to have the hand-eye coordination,skill and mental strength to hit the ball year after year. Granted, his extra strength has turned some flyouts in big parks into homeruns but he isn't the only one to be dabbling in the juice.

So good for him, even though he is a jerk.





In other reports, HGH appears to reduce stress, improve focus and concentration and help build self-esteem and self-confidence. Raising HGH levels has also been known to reverse a decline in memory and cognitive performance. In one study performed on adult male patients deficient in HGH, Dutch researchers, headed by Jan Berend Deijem, M.D., found HGH deficiency to be associated with impairments in iconic memory (the ability to process flashes of information), short-term memory, long-term memory and perceptual motor skills such as hand-eye coordination.
http://www.seniormag.com/caregiverresources/articles/hgh.htm
 
That passage doesn't automatically make the logical leap that a person with normal HGH levels would find hand-eye coordination improved by taking more HGH. It says that a person deficient in HGH might find improvement by normalizing the levels. I'm not saying that the HGH in higher levels than normal wouldn't increase eye-hand coordination. I'm just saying that passage quoted doesn't go there.
 
In the end, I really don't care that Barry Bonds is the new homerun king. I always respected Bonds as a player and I always enjoyed the fact that he gave the media a hard time.

I also feel that the way MLB handled the steroid era is duplicitous (at best), but I am concerned with the general lack of concern in many Americans and in many corners of sports media regarding the fact that this man cheated to achieve the record.

Now, I think it is fair to say that he has never: tested positive, admitted to using any performance enhancing drugs, or been indicted on charges relating to the above. That's fine. By law, every person should have the right to a fair shake. BUT, the circumstantial evidence is overwhelmingly against Barry Bonds. It worries me that so many people are willing to jump on his bandwaggon and make excuses for him.

To me that makes no sense. I can't stand it when I turn on my radio and hear callers trying to justify his actions by saying, "Yeah I think he cheated, but so did other players." "Yeah, he cheated but major league baseball knew about it." Or the one I heard this morning that almost made my head explode, "Yeah I think he cheated, but so did Lance Armstrong."

I'm going to sound like my grandmother here, but what ever happened to "two wrongs do not make a right"?

It would be unfair to take Bond's record away from him or put an asterisks next to his record if they cannot prove (with evidence) that he did take the drugs, but that does not mean that the American public needs to lower our standards of fair play and celebrate him.
 
BonosSaint said:
That passage doesn't automatically make the logical leap that a person with normal HGH levels would find hand-eye coordination improved by taking more HGH. It says that a person deficient in HGH might find improvement by normalizing the levels. I'm not saying that the HGH in higher levels than normal wouldn't increase eye-hand coordination. I'm just saying that passage quoted doesn't go there.


I realize that. I read a article in a medical journal a year or so ago linking HGH with increased hand eye coordination, but I can't find it right now for the life of me. That article simply shows it as a possibility.
 
I don't consider this to be a big deal because I think he took steroids - and whatever has been said about him still having to supply the coordination and skill is true, but it's also true that the steroids enhanced his power. I think he cheated, and not even in a more respectable, individually powered way (spitballs are cheating, but they're done with the skill and resources of the individual - and aside from being dangerous, they're kinda cool). So I'll always see an invisible asterisk, but I also think that Arod, much as I dislike the guy, will break it on his own merit, so it won't matter that much.

I would like Barry to have to own his actions some day, though.
 
BonosSaint said:

All this moral flexing is such a joke.


This is another joke argument. Why in the world should baseball fans simply turn our backs on the Bonds scandal because we cheered for Mark McGuire.


I fuckin' believed my mom and dad when they told me Santa Claus was real, but that doesn't mean I have to let everyone lie to me now.

Fool me once ...
 
Dalton said:


Now, I think it is fair to say that he has never: tested positive, admitted to using any performance enhancing drugs, or been indicted on charges relating to the above.

Well, there is that pesky grand jury testimony where he admits to using products he thought (yeah right) were flax-seed oil and arthritis balm. His supposed ignorance does not make him innocent.

The number of Bonds apologists and excuse makers are disturbing to me as well.
 
WildHoneyAlways said:


Well, there is that pesky grand jury testimony where he admits to using products he thought (yeah right) were flax-seed oil and arthritis balm. His supposed ignorance does not make him innocent.

Whenever I hear an athlete plead ignorance as to what he took, they must think that the rest of us of f'ing morons. What profressional athelete would take something and not know exactly what it is? With the training regiment that Bonds has (and other athletes) it's absurd to think that he doesn't monitor what goes into his body down to the last little bit. He got to be a professional by being so meticulous about these things, not by randomly injecting/ingesting things.
 
Varitek said:
I think he cheated, and not even in a more respectable, individually powered way (spitballs are cheating, but they're done with the skill and resources of the individual - and aside from being dangerous, they're kinda cool).

This is part of the problem too. Certain methods of cheating aren't chastised, but rather laughed at. I'm very guilty of this too. Whether it's stealing signs, a little piece of sandpaper in the glove, or steroids it's still cheating - a player is trying to shift the odds of success in their favor. Yet, all forms of cheating aren't viewed the same. I'd like to know how spitballs or sandpaper got to be acceptable and steroids and corked bats got to be unacceptable. The million dollar question is why are steroids the biggest thing in baseball, but no one cares about them in the NFL.
 
Dalton said:
It would be unfair to take Bond's record away from him or put an asterisks next to his record if they cannot prove (with evidence) that he did take the drugs, but that does not mean that the American public needs to lower our standards of fair play and celebrate him.

I snipped Dalton's post for length's sake, but I feel pretty much the same way he does.

I was a little bummed this morning when I learned he'd broken the record. Not because I didn't want him to, but that I'd missed it! I'm not a big Bonds fan, but I like seeing big historic events play out.

Oh well.
 
randhail said:


This is part of the problem too. Certain methods of cheating aren't chastised, but rather laughed at. I'm very guilty of this too. Whether it's stealing signs, a little piece of sandpaper in the glove, or steroids it's still cheating - a player is trying to shift the odds of success in their favor. Yet, all forms of cheating aren't viewed the same. I'd like to know how spitballs or sandpaper got to be acceptable and steroids and corked bats got to be unacceptable. The million dollar question is why are steroids the biggest thing in baseball, but no one cares about them in the NFL.

I honestly think that some kinds of cheating are worse than others. Stealing signs and spitballs and sandpaper should earn the offender an intentional HBP, but they have always been part of the game and they come from individual achievements, whereas steroids are outside influence. (I'm willing to stand by the extension of this argument - that signs stolen with the use of cameras are far worse than the guy on second or in the bullpen cracking the catcher's signs and relaying them to the batter. However, the worst is when a batter turns around and looks...don't know if I can logically fit that in, but whatever. Baseball is a peculiar sport.)
 
corianderstem said:


I was a little bummed this morning when I learned he'd broken the record. Not because I didn't want him to, but that I'd missed it! I'm not a big Bonds fan, but I like seeing big historic events play out.

Oh well.

I missed it too, but I wasn't disappointed. I remember staying up to listen for Bonds's 500th on MLB radio. That still seemed like a magical moment. I don't even care that I didn't see this as it is meaningless to me - I'm much sadder I missed Arod's 500th. But compared to Barry's 500th, I cared a little less about that too. I think part of the reason is what Jayson Stark wrote about - the steroids and Barry breaking the record have kind of cheapened all of those numbers for me. Part of it might be that he's a Yankee - I'm excited as hell for Manny and he won't hit 500 until late September or early next year.
 
MrPryck2U said:
What's great about all of this is that one day, barring injury, Alex Rodriguez will break this record. Whether or not he does it as a Yankee remains to be seen, but when he does, no one will give a shit about Bonds and his alleged Shenangans.
Of course Jose Canseco claims to have "something on" A-Rod in his upcoming book.
 
For the record: one of my favorite things in baseball is when a manager leaves a starting pitcher in the game even when he is getting his azz handed to him.

"Sorry son, you're letting the team down with your miserable performance and we are not going to let you compound that mistake by wearing out our bullpen. Here's the ball. Do what you can. By the way, you'll be on a bus this time tomorrow!"

From the Brewers game:

PITCHING STATS
Pitcher IP PC H ER BB K
Gallardo 2.2 80 12 11 3 1
 
Hewson said:
Perhaps, but much of what he exposed in his first book proved to be true.

Hewson, you madcap, I won't fall into your evil trap!


Seriously, I guess anything is possible. I never thought Doc Gooden would turn into a coke head. But, Canseco's credibility is questionable at best.
 
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