the sheer genius that is (was?!) New Order - U2 Feedback

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Old 09-07-2007, 12:09 PM   #1
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the sheer genius that is (was?!) New Order

Been cleaning out my office a bit and came across an old bootleg DVD of some of their performances. A lot is made of Ian Curtis and Joy Division, and rightly so, but sometimes I think people forget just what balls the rest of the band had too. Even Gillian.

They took chances onstage for crissakes Gillian and Stephen could only hope half the time that what would come out of the sequencers and synths would be near what they had put out on the record. That takes alot of guts to do live.

I suppose youtube has a few examples of what I'm talking about..

THey weren't virtuousos, by any means...but they seemingly didn't care they just went for it. I love that.
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Old 09-07-2007, 04:16 PM   #2
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I think we discussed this fairly recently, but I still feel New Order are a hell of a lot more important in music history than Joy Division.

Not only were they on top of the trends in dance music throughout the 80's, but blending those sounds with their own rock and roll sound is something that is still heard today in the sounds of other bands.

Also, I don't get a whole lot of pleasure listening to Joy Division--it wears out its welcome fairly quickly. New Order, on the other hand, has stuff for all occasions. If you want to dance, plenty of choices. If you want to rock out, no shortage there either. These guys crafted a huge amount of pop gems while still standing way in front of the mainstream, at least until the end of the 80's.

1993's Republic and this decade's two reunion albums were all very good, but obviously not as groundbreaking as what came before.
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Old 09-07-2007, 04:59 PM   #3
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Ha! I must have been away before that thread faded away..well I suppose of course that we could carry this one on under the guise of talking about their live show...heh any excuse to talk about them is good enough for me.

Read your comments re: Brotherhood and Low life and have to agree. Also that they are one of if not the best band of the 80s, I would say that for sure if U2 hadn't come along and ruined it all but...ok so I'll call them best British band of the 80s, why not?

So you have 511 huh? I've been scouring the torrents for a copy of 316 - I know, it's PAL but easily converted, and thats the shit to see..

Do you have any boots of them live? I have a couple, the fairly typical ones:

- some show I think 82 or so, it's bad quality
- June 85 from Japan
- June 02 from Finsbury Park (which if I remeber right is 511 footage?)
- May 05 from Hammerstein Ballroom
- and a hodgepodge of wmv's and avi's I've downloaded over the years...some better than others..

still looking for the Fuji Rocks shows (I think there were two of them)

but I digress heh
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Old 09-07-2007, 05:24 PM   #4
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Peronally, I think New Order's lastet work (last 2 albums) is their best and most unqiue work.
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Old 09-07-2007, 07:43 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by gabrielvox
Read your comments re: Brotherhood and Low life and have to agree. Also that they are one of if not the best band of the 80s, I would say that for sure if U2 hadn't come along and ruined it all but...ok so I'll call them best British band of the 80s, why not?
Actually, I think they are the best band of the 80's. I don't think that U2's work in that decade alone is enough to stack up against NO's discography through Technique. They may not have a Joshua Tree in their corner, but I'd say everything except Movement is more impressive than Boy, October, and probably War.

I only have a couple boots, one is that common BBC Live thing with the blue cover and the other is something "...Dreams" and I think is around the Brotherhood era.
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Old 09-07-2007, 11:20 PM   #6
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Hmm..well I can't really say that..I mean October is one of my favorite albums by anyone, much less U2, so...

I think where U2 pulls ahead for sure though is live. New Order couldn't really get it together until later, and I realize that sounds funny after how I started the thread, but it's true, I mean sometimes nothing went right for them onstage...and Sumner had this knack for really alienating the audience sometimes, maybe he was oblivious to it, or maybe he just didn't care, I can't really tell. Bono on the other hand is the exact polar opposites onstage to me,he makes it impossible for the audience not to love him. I think in the late 90s and more recently Sumner has started to look like he's actually enjoying himself...maybe not being fried out of his skull helps, maybe they've just gotten better live in terms of proficiency and so are more comfortable now. Peter Hook was always a rock star from day 1 though, no doubt, and Stephen was probably the most reliable in terms of musicianship.

I think if I really have to compare the two it's not really a fair comparison..
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Old 09-07-2007, 11:28 PM   #7
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New Order is excellent, far more important and impressive than Joy Division. JD was a very good bad that achieved greatness through death. New Order, I think, became a better band because of it. If Ian Curtis had lived and the rest of the members still grew would that have been even better? I don't know.

And Get Ready really is an excellent album. I think it gets tossed aside as being an "after the fact cash in", but it's quality stuff.
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Old 09-07-2007, 11:51 PM   #8
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I tend to agree, I wish he didn't go on a humanistic emphathetic level - although on the other hand it wouldn't have been pretty what would have become of him I don't think...but I think you are right, there would have been no New Order..(EDIT: i want to edit that...I dont think that is a fair or nice thing I want to say about one of m y dead musical heroes, nope its not). I still think he's part of the genius though and let's admit it, most of what we rate highest in their discography (ok well maybe just me) is firmly rooted in the original JD sound..for instance the Melodica and Curtis' Vox guitar live on stiil....would he have embraced the dance stuff? who knows?

U2 related footnote: A Day Without Me, first single off of their first album, is about Ian Curtis...and was their introduction to Steve Lillywhite, previously it was supposed to be Hannnet but for his devastation because of his friend's death...and from then on, as they say, it's history..

didn't Bono at one point back then also call Curtis the greatest frontman in rock and that he would do all he could to assume that mantle or something similar in typical grandiose bono-esq? man all this stuff, i remember being so wrapped up in it...26 years ago...insane how time flies..
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Old 09-08-2007, 12:01 AM   #9
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He was a genius, no doubt. It's similar, in my head, to Syd Barrett and Pink Floyd. Once Syd Barrett left Floyd became a much better band - but they needed his foundation to get started. New Order took what Ian did, cause JD was largely his thing, and brought it to another level. New Order had the courtesy to change the name of the band though.
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Old 09-08-2007, 12:02 AM   #10
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that was an original JD pact tho...if any member left, the name had to change..

edit: sorry if i went on a history lesson there, just forgot which board i'm on i guess...like preaching to the choir!
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Old 09-08-2007, 12:38 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by gabrielvox
I've been scouring the torrents for a copy of 316 - I know, it's PAL but easily converted, and thats the shit to see..
316 is available in ntsc too

i love new order, they're a great band. waiting for the sirens' call is a fantastic album. i can't say i hate any of their albums, although i'm not too crazy about get ready.
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Old 09-08-2007, 12:53 AM   #12
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Are you offering?

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Old 09-08-2007, 02:36 AM   #13
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In honor of this thread, I listened to New Order "all the way to the club" tonight, and after hearing Age of Consent and Temptation, I thanked Ian Curtis again for making the music world a better place.
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Old 09-08-2007, 06:31 AM   #14
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Get Ready is one of my favorite albums ever. Every song on it is amazing.
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Old 09-10-2007, 08:37 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by lazarus
In honor of this thread, I listened to New Order "all the way to the club" tonight, and after hearing Age of Consent and Temptation, I thanked Ian Curtis again for making the music world a better place.

ok, are you being sarcastic, or are you just thanking ian for being the actual start of new order, technically, as in if it werent for ian, there'd have been no new order? or...
just thanking him for dying? uh wuuuuh?!?!? ok maybe i really am more sleep depreived than i fucking thought.. but wtf.




but anyhoo.. Age of Consent and Temptation happen to be two of the greatest songs the band ever did, and just in general.

whatever.
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