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Old 06-12-2007, 11:45 PM   #16
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Originally posted by No spoken words


He felt the need.
What are you talking about. Is this "screw with the new guy through mysterious statements with no purpose other than to befuddle him" time?
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Old 06-13-2007, 09:09 AM   #17
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Originally posted by No spoken words


He felt the need.

NSW - I think she lost that loving feeling.
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Old 06-13-2007, 09:10 AM   #18
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Muldfeld, I watched the show. It was interesting, but I would hardly call it must see tv.
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Old 06-13-2007, 09:22 AM   #19
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Do you work for these programs or something?
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Old 06-14-2007, 02:32 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dalton
Muldfeld, I watched the show. It was interesting, but I would hardly call it must see tv.
Thanks for checking it out. BSG would be my pick as the best tv show in years, but this is my second favorite. I think it's as good as Lost, given the budgetary constraints which really affect the look and music of the show, and a heck of a lot better than Heroes. It's also somewhat political and confrontational; for example The 4400 guy being a suicide bomber, some of the 4400 becoming terrorists in reaction to government policies of control and discrimination and the whole issue of identity politics, when it comes to these characters. I like that it takes chances, but you're totally entitled to your opinion. Again, thanks.
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Old 06-14-2007, 02:46 AM   #21
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Do you work for these programs or something?
No, but I really feel that shows like this and later seasons of Star Trek Deep Space Nine (run by the same guy), and especially Battlestar Galactica bring up important issues that have come to our attention in the post-9/11 world, but are also historic issues about the nature of terrorism (and how it's just as morally ambiguous as war), about the basis for discrimination beyond the perfunctory racist assumptions much of TV alleges as the cause, about the nature of the politics of resistance and collaboration in occupied regimes, about the tension between democracy and security.

I really believe that shows like this one challenge the viewer to think about the world in more subtle and true ways in seeing human nature as capable of kindness and cruelty -- no matter whose side the examined figure is on.

I enjoy Lost very much and I can understand why people enjoy Heroes in that comic bookish way and even action shows like 24, but there's something missing in them about humanity; too often the characters are motivated to do wrong due to some evil irrational influence and I think these shows are part of a culture that has voters incorrectly thinking about why there's violence and conflict in the world. People can watch those shows and never understand why some Irans or "the other" might be opposed to American policy. And vice versa -- other cultures might not be examining why they're really in conflict with "the other".

This is part of a short tradition of intelligent sci-fi which shows people as fallible and in conflict because of their own interests -- not because one side is more evil than another. (A recent film that portrayed this well was Babel.) This case is most effectively made in Battlestar Galactica, but this is the only other show that does it, and will hopefully remain on the air long after BSG ends, since both shows face low ratings and are some of the best things on, and I don't want to lose them.
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Old 06-15-2007, 01:20 AM   #22
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I prefer Heroes over 4400, for sure!
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Old 06-16-2007, 02:29 AM   #23
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Originally posted by UberBeaver
Oh, it's back already? Cool. I don't watch it every week, but I catch it nowand then. I like it. It's a little cheesy at times, but enjoyable nontheless. I think the guy that plays Richard is awesome. I miss Lily. I thought they were an excellent couple. Oh well.
While I was sad to see Lily go, I think she was the weakest of the characters. She portrayed herself as quite intelligent and witty, when she called Jordan Collier out on some of his behavior in Season 1 and when she told Ross she wasn't some kid who needed to find the 4400 ability within her in Season 2. However her character dynamics were among the weakest, and it's a shame they didn't seem able to do enough with her.

She was a fine enough actress, but the network execs who are very tight with this show's budget got into some conflict with her over pay (probably) and the writing stafff were told at the last minute that she would not be back for Season 3. In this recent and interesting interview, Ira Steven Behr talks about how surprises like this and Billy Campbell's absence perhaps hurt an otherwise thought-out season, and had them scrambling for different dynamics and stories. He also outlines the types of episodes they'll be doing.

http://tv.ign.com/articles/796/796356p1.html
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Old 06-16-2007, 11:34 PM   #24
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Thanks for the changes, admin! I hope this gets Heroes fans interested while not upsetting them too much, and welcoming people looking for dramatic realism. Battlestar Galactica is the best of all at this, though.
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Old 06-21-2007, 02:26 PM   #25
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Link for US residents only (bastards!) to streaming video for the 4th season premiere:

http://video.usanetwork.com/player/?id=119606
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Old 06-21-2007, 02:32 PM   #26
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I've had a little free time on my hands so I've watched more of this show. Its pretty good, but I wouldn't even put it in the same class as heroes.

Its got a great premise, but it just hasn't been able to deliver on the initial promise.

The show reminds me a bit of Tom's son. Initially he was chosen to be the major voice of those who sent the 4400 yet something went wrong and he slipped into a deep coma while someone else got all the glory. Shame really.
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Old 06-21-2007, 08:11 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dalton
I've had a little free time on my hands so I've watched more of this show. Its pretty good, but I wouldn't even put it in the same class as heroes.

Its got a great premise, but it just hasn't been able to deliver on the initial promise.

The show reminds me a bit of Tom's son. Initially he was chosen to be the major voice of those who sent the 4400 yet something went wrong and he slipped into a deep coma while someone else got all the glory. Shame really.
I'm curious. Which episodes did you watch? The show took a while to get off its feet because of cast changes and stuff, and actors leaving or being absent for a time, but it has its moments. Head writer Ira Behr said that, this season, they're gonna explain more of why The 4400 were sent back. I defintely find the continuing story much more engaging than the silly stand alone plots placed there to pull in new viewers. The Season 2 episode "Life Interrupted" is probably the best episode of that season.

Regarding Heroes, don't you find the emotional drama much more believable and actually given its due on The 4400 instead of the filler you feel when watching DL, Michah and Ali Larter or even the cliche drama between the cheerleader and her dad? There's something so derivative about Heroes, even if it's fun like porn; the drama's not what every one's watching it for; the action's the main thing, and the drama is placed there superficially to pass the time; because it doesn't take that aspect of the show very seriously and knows most viewers don't want too much of it, it's given little attention; the one exception might be the last scene between Peter and Nathan coming to save the day by risking his life; it was very sad, but I found out Nathan's back next year, so it's almost like he didn't risk anything at all. Also, I just don't think the acting -- except Mr. Bennet, Sylar, and the invisible guy -- is very good at all, in part because the emotional motivations are very sketchy.

When you're trying to stay more realistic, it's a lot harder to write and get fantastical. For example The X-Files found changing after Season 6 much tougher because it had built up the characters and reality a certain way. A show like Buffy had no problem because it constantly changed the rules and rarely adhered to character realism; motivations and behavior would change on a whim to suit whatever exciting new development. I see that sort of thing taken to an extreme on Heroes. Even the action suffers from this. There's no reason Sylar shouldn't have reacted faster to Hiro or stopped cutting Peter's head to give him a chance to heal. They build up these moments to create suspense and prove unable to deliver based on the layed out rules the very next episode. Even DL looked like he was going to die and then it turns out he's fine.

No offense to people who enjoy Heroes, but I used to read lots of comics as a teen and it feels very derivative of that, especially X-Men. It's fun and all, but doesn't really challenge the viewer's perceptions on a dramatic (the parental and sibling relationships are handled more skillfully on The 4400 and it's not just the evil parents manipulating everything) or political level (realistic commentary on terrorism). The 4400 isn't quite there yet, and it's made its share of mistakes (unlike the new Battlestar Galactica which is awesome from the get-go and perhaps the greatest show of all time!) but it's getting there.

Anyway, thanks for checking out more of the show. Please tell us if you see any more, and what you think.
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Old 06-22-2007, 06:32 PM   #28
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I saw the 4th season premiere. Nice, but not great. The stand alone subplot weakened things. I wish they'd continue on the trend they started with last year's finale. They won't have mythology-focussed episodes until Episode 5 this season, but every episode contains mythology elements, and it's too bad they don't just focus on that.
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Old 06-26-2007, 10:35 PM   #29
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Ok Mudfeld, I'm completely current on the 4400 (I've spent a significant amount of time in the hospital over the last few weeks and its allowed me to catch up). While its a decent show with a great premise, I fully stick by my earlier post - its a good show that doesn't deliver.

I'm not sure what show you are watching, but I find the most characters on The 4400 to be shockingly 2 dimensional. Tom Baldwin? I wrote better characters in college. Where is the depth?

I'm not sure that they could have created a more abrupt change in Dennis Ryland's character if they tried.

Shawn? Where is the internal conflict?

Too many weeks the show focuses on underdeveloped 4400 hundreds that offer very little other than being the platform that the few 2-dimensional characters are launched from.

The only character on the show that has been developed in an interesting way is Jordan Collier. I think they have done a great job with him. (too a lesser extent, I thought they did a nice job with Matthew's character).

I do believe they have done well to maintain a healthy skepticism of both the future's intentions and the choices of the 4400 in the present, but I find myself dissatisfied for the most part with the plot of the show...
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Old 06-26-2007, 10:42 PM   #30
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sorry Muldfeld my friend

but I am out

the killer clowns were just too silly



I am 100 % with you on BSG
and I am buying season one and two to share with my two brothers

but 4400 is too inconsistent
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