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Old 11-27-2006, 04:38 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase



the chargers clearly got the better deal with LT vs. Vick. the jury is in, the verdict has been handed down... Tomlinson is one of the greatest runningbacks of all time. Vick is a pretty good running back, too. Problem is he's a damned shitty quarterback.

now on to Eli...

we've seen moments of greatness from eli... every so often it appears as if he's taken the next step, only to fall back 2 steps the next week. i can not blame him one iota for yesterday's colapse. the first INT was 100% not his fault. the second one was, but it was in a situation where he never should have been in to begin with. up until that first INT, which was completely plaxico burress' fault (many of eli's INT's end up because of plax fucking up), eli was doing a very good job of game management.

philip rivers has yet to play a full season, and he has the best running back in football next to him. tiki is a great runner, yes. but even he doesn't compare to the multi-thread that is Ladanian Tomlinson. No one does. To steal a quote from the Tuna, let's hold off on the anointing oils. Half a succesful season does not a great quarterback make.

they may be leaning towards rivers at the moment, but the jury is certainly still out on that one.



No one's anointing Rivers yet, but he's certainly at best, no worse than Eli Manning now, or at the same stages in their "starter" career.

Throw in the fact that the picks the Giants gave up to get Manning turned out to be Luis Castillo, stud DT with 5 sacks on the year so far and the ever-reliable Nate Kaeding, certainly looks like the chargers have come out ahead !
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Old 11-27-2006, 04:50 PM   #62
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Actually, one of the those picks was Shawn Merriman, not Castillo. He was their own pick.

But that makes the trade even better.
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Old 11-27-2006, 09:03 PM   #63
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The Cowboys have just dropped Mike Vanderjagt off the team after he sucked for 11 games.

As much as I enjoy watching a bozo suffer this sort of misfortune, this is a big mistake by the Cowboys. Yeah, maybe his skills are slipping or maybe he has turned into a headcase after last year's debacle against the Steelers. But if you're going to cut one of the most accurate FG kickers in NFL history, you better have somebody better than Martin Gramatica as a solution.

Of course, my biggest fear now is that the Patriots will sign him.
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Old 11-27-2006, 09:13 PM   #64
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he was 13-18 on FG's on the year. he's a headcase and I would probably rather have Automatica as well over Vanderjagt at this point.
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Old 11-28-2006, 09:15 AM   #65
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Man, am I full.

I just ate a New York Giant sandwich.

I ate 3 quarters of it and then I choked.


zing
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Old 11-28-2006, 10:16 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by toscano


No one's anointing Rivers yet, but he's certainly at best, no worse than Eli Manning now, or at the same stages in their "starter" career.

Throw in the fact that the picks the Giants gave up to get Manning turned out to be Luis Castillo, stud DT with 5 sacks on the year so far and the ever-reliable Nate Kaeding, certainly looks like the chargers have come out ahead !
kaeding who of course choked away the chargers playoff game against the jets his rookie season... castillo wasn't the giants pick... shawne merriman was. merriman is, of course, a beast, and if he stays off the juice (or gets a better wizzinator) is probably the best linebacker in the NFL.

would i like to have merriman? of course... who wouldn't. but you can't use merriman, because in all likely hood the giants wouldn't have drafted him, anyways. merriman slipped in the draft because of questions about his character. a bunch of teams passed on him... and the giants likely would have, too.
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Old 11-28-2006, 10:48 AM   #67
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Well, Merriman was one of the picks they got from the Giants, so if one is analyzing who got the better of the trade, so far the Chargers have. I don't think it really matters if the Giants had picked him or not. The Chargers did with a pick they originally didn't have, so that has to be a factor.

Regardless, it's still too early to tell what kind of a quarterback Manning, or even Rivers, will be for the long haul.
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Old 11-28-2006, 11:15 AM   #68
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i do believe that tom coughlin is helping to ruin eli's career and wouldn't mind him leaving at season's end regardless of how this season ends up.
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Old 11-28-2006, 11:50 AM   #69
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Archie will see to TomCoff getting canned so Eli doesn't lose any of his money.

(No concerns in the Manning household about winning titles, just getting the most bucks)
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Old 11-28-2006, 03:46 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase


kaeding who of course choked away the chargers playoff game against the jets his rookie season... castillo wasn't the giants pick... shawne merriman was. merriman is, of course, a beast, and if he stays off the juice (or gets a better wizzinator) is probably the best linebacker in the NFL.

would i like to have merriman? of course... who wouldn't. but you can't use merriman, because in all likely hood the giants wouldn't have drafted him, anyways. merriman slipped in the draft because of questions about his character. a bunch of teams passed on him... and the giants likely would have, too.
You CAN use Merriman, since that WAS the trade, actually I think there was even another draft pick involved that NY gave up too, but can't be bothered looking it up.

So, its Kaeding, Merriman, Rivers and some other guy (?) for Manning. Clearly a "win" for San Diego based on performances to date.

I am neither a Chargers or Giants fan by the way.
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Old 11-28-2006, 08:22 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by toscano

So, its Kaeding, Merriman, Rivers and some other guy (?) for Manning. Clearly a "win" for San Diego based on performances to date.

I am neither a Chargers or Giants fan by the way.
Clearly a win? As it has been mentioned before, Kaeding missed a field goal that lost the Chargers a playoff game. Rivers is leading the Chargers to a division title but so did Eli and hell he might do it again this season. As for Merriman, the guy has tested positive for steriods. Rivers has one of the best running backs of all time to hand of to while Eli has a retiring back and Plexico "quit-on-your-route" Burress. Eli has had to win games while Rivers has LT to throw and handoff to. How can you call the Manning trade a clear win for the Chargers?
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Old 11-28-2006, 08:59 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by Screwtape2


Clearly a win? As it has been mentioned before, Kaeding missed a field goal that lost the Chargers a playoff game. Rivers is leading the Chargers to a division title but so did Eli and hell he might do it again this season. As for Merriman, the guy has tested positive for steriods. Rivers has one of the best running backs of all time to hand of to while Eli has a retiring back and Plexico "quit-on-your-route" Burress. Eli has had to win games while Rivers has LT to throw and handoff to. How can you call the Manning trade a clear win for the Chargers?
Easy.

Kaeding a bad miss, yes. One bad miss does not a career make. But you as a Giants fan ought to know all about those with Feely. This year so far he's 17 of 19, with a long of 54. Better than feely is doing, or has ever done (if he keeps it up). So, they got a younger kicker who is currently playing at a higher level than Feely.

Merriman is a monster, do I really need to go into it ? 8 anda half sacks in 8 games so far this year. Just those 2 alone could go a long way to justify the trade. Throw in Rivers, who despite having Lt take a lot of plays away from the QB is throwing for 220 ypg, with a completion % of 65, a YPA of 7.4 and a TD/INT ratio of 2.5 to 1.

just to put that in perspective, Manning, with a slouch like Tiki Barber to hand off to (sarcasm was on) , has never in any year had a completion ratio that high, a TD to INT ratio that high (not even close), or a YPA that high. And even with LT there, Rivers has thrown almost as many TD's as Manning.

Having a young stud pass-rushing DE AND a franchise QB in the making AND a reliable kicker isn't coming out ahead when all you had to give up was one franchise QB ?


You're looking at it with Giants-colored glasses my friend
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Old 11-28-2006, 09:52 PM   #73
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1. I'm a Colts fan.
2. The Chargers have a great regular season kicker who just lost them a game when it counts.
3. You completely ignored the fact that Merriman used steriods.
4. Look at the difference in schedule. The Chargers have played the Ravens, a Denver team going to their backup and a KC team likely to be bounced out of the playoff bubble. The Giants however will have played Indianapolis, Seattle, Dallas twice, Chicago and New Orleans.
5. In Eli's breakout season last year, Tiki touched the ball as much as LT has this year. Look at the difference:
Manning (2005) 3,762 Passing Yards and 24 Touchdowns
Rivers (2006)-Projected to have: 3,549 PY and 22 Touchdowns
Eli has better stats

So we are left with a juiced DE, a kicker with a playoff history consisting only of a lost game on a bad kick and a QB with stats in his breakout season less than Manning's for a quarterback who has shown moments of greatness. Yeah, a slam dunk for the Chargers.

Maybe these will jog your memory.
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Old 11-28-2006, 11:16 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally posted by Screwtape2
1. I'm a Colts fan.
2. The Chargers have a great regular season kicker who just lost them a game when it counts.
In that regard is he any different than any other kicker ? No. He's not as bad as some, like, say a certain Colts kicker last year !

Kaeding is 5th most accurate kicker in the league to date this year.


Quote:
Originally posted by Screwtape2

3. You completely ignored the fact that Merriman used steriods.
Then we'll see how well he does when he gets back.

Quote:
Originally posted by Screwtape2

4. Look at the difference in schedule. The Chargers have played the Ravens, a Denver team going to their backup and a KC team likely to be bounced out of the playoff bubble.
The Chargers are in a stronger division than the NFC East.

To-date:

NFCE - 22 wins
AFCW - 25 wins

Charger - Beaten 3 teams with a winning record

2 losses by a combined 6 points.


Giants - Beaten 1 team with a winning record

6 losses by a combined 54 points
[/B][/QUOTE]


Quote:
Originally posted by Screwtape2
[B]
Manning (2005) 3,762 Passing Yards and 24 Touchdowns
Rivers (2006)-Projected to have: 3,549 PY and 22 Touchdowns
Eli has better stats

]
Conveniently, you neglect the INT's. Rivers is on track for only 9, MUCH better than Manning's 17. Turnovers kill ya every time. Ask, oh, Manning.....

Manning's QBR last year: 75.9
Rivers' QBR this year: 94.5

So, we're left with: One of the league's leding pass rushers who may or may not have his performance illegally enhanced, we shall see. The 5th most accurate kicker in the league, and a QB on track to a breakout season better than the guy he was traded for (of course you don't count the picks in that assessment, but anyone who knows anything about football knows the impact of turnovers)

So as a Colts fan I guess it's the Manning-colored glasses you need to take off. Like big bro, he's choking in the big games too.
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Old 11-28-2006, 11:50 PM   #75
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Falcons QB Micheal Vick fined 20 Large for his double finger salute to the fans.
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