The Office Part 3: It's Got a Sort of Oaky Afterbirth

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OMG what an episode!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



it was so good, yet damm that Andi :madwife:


poor pam and jim oh that killed me.


love the new girl, she was hillarious with kevin- and then kevin saying to the camera- i'm totally going to bang her ! :lol:


and the exit interview . :lol:

may have to go watch this one again .

it was a great night for me as i also had the supernatural finale to watch as well.
 
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Okay, right now I'm watching Business School, and this episode always makes me wonder how people can't like Michael, despite his many faults. The scene at the end with him and Pam is so incredibly touching. He's such a great, complex character. Certainly he's self-centered, obnoxious, and idiotic at times, but then we get other glimpses of him like this where he's so awesome, sympathetic, and human. I've never gotten the impression that any of these bad qualities come from a malicious place, which would make him wholly unlikable. Rather, I think he's just insecure, socially dumb, and naive. This is in sharp contrast to his English counterpart, David Brent, who was rarely (never? I can't recall) ever shown to be so vulnerable and sympathetic.
 
VintagePunk said:
Okay, right now I'm watching Business School, and this episode always makes me wonder how people can't like Michael, despite his many faults. The scene at the end with him and Pam is so incredibly touching. He's such a great, complex character. Certainly he's self-centered, obnoxious, and idiotic at times, but then we get other glimpses of him like this where he's so awesome, sympathetic, and human. I've never gotten the impression that any of these bad qualities come from a malicious place, which would make him wholly unlikable. Rather, I think he's just insecure, socially dumb, and naive. This is in sharp contrast to his English counterpart, David Brent, who was rarely (never? I can't recall) ever shown to be so vulnerable and sympathetic.
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I agree completely about Michael. He's the glue that holds the show together.

There's some sympathy for David in the Christmas Specials, after he's been fired, but that's about it.
 
I think that was the show's intention all along - make him have moments of likability, because otherwise he's completely unsympathetic.

It used to work for me, especially in the episode you mentioned. But now, the little moments of him being likable are too few and far between, and his moments of "I CAN'T BELIEVE HE'S SUCH AN ASSHOLE/I CAN'T BELIEVE HE HAS A JOB!!!!!!" far, far outweigh the little nice bits for me.

They need to either ramp up the one side or tone down the other. I really, really wish they'd tone down the other.
 
Hopefully the Holly storyline will help with that. I can't stand OTT Michael or Dwight either, it's a sign of poor writing.
 
corianderstem said:
I think that was the show's intention all along - make him have moments of likability, because otherwise he's completely unsympathetic.

It used to work for me, especially in the episode you mentioned. But now, the little moments of him being likable are too few and far between, and his moments of "I CAN'T BELIEVE HE'S SUCH AN ASSHOLE/I CAN'T BELIEVE HE HAS A JOB!!!!!!" far, far outweigh the little nice bits for me.

They need to either ramp up the one side or tone down the other. I really, really wish they'd tone down the other.
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Yeah, I'm sure it was the intention from the start. You couldn't sustain a character like that for a long run without having him have endearing moments, which wasn't a concern for the the BBC version.

I agree that they've not had nearly as many likable moments for Michael recently, but what they have had, and what seems to function in much the same way for me (but not for you, from the sound of it) are moments where he is a sympathetic character. That's been very much the case for me this season, and I can think of a lot of episodes where my heart has just about broken for him. These would include most of The Deposition, where he was torn between the company and Jan, his scene with Jan sitting on the train discussing his money problems, his second job and everything that ensued with that, most of Dinner Party and his relationship with crazy Jan, his decision to attend Lamaze with Jan despite him not being the father (sorry, as I type, I keep thinking of more and more). Also, throughout the series, we keep hearing little offhand tidbits about how shitty his childhood was, and finally, his intense desire to be a dad, which, I think he'd be a great one, just that the mother would have to be the adult and disciplinarian of the equation.

Good lord, I never realized I had all these intense feelings about Michael Scott. I should start a fan club, or something. :wink:

LemonMacPhisto said:
Hopefully the Holly storyline will help with that. I can't stand OTT Michael or Dwight either, it's a sign of poor writing.
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The one scene of Michael's that I thought was so over the top it just rubbed me the wrong way was him driving into the lake. That was just dumb if it bugged even me, writers.
 
My all-time favorite episode revolves around a crazy Michael moment though: The Injury. It cracks me up every single time, along with Drug Testing.
 
Watching Dwight not only throw up on the back of his car, but also get up and drive away ... I never laughed harder watching a live TV broadcast than that moment.
 
VintagePunk said:
Okay, right now I'm watching Business School, and this episode always makes me wonder how people can't like Michael, despite his many faults. The scene at the end with him and Pam is so incredibly touching. He's such a great, complex character. Certainly he's self-centered, obnoxious, and idiotic at times, but then we get other glimpses of him like this where he's so awesome, sympathetic, and human. I've never gotten the impression that any of these bad qualities come from a malicious place, which would make him wholly unlikable. Rather, I think he's just insecure, socially dumb, and naive. This is in sharp contrast to his English counterpart, David Brent, who was rarely (never? I can't recall) ever shown to be so vulnerable and sympathetic.
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Agreed. I also like that part before he goes to Pam's art show. He tells Ryan something like this: "A good manager hires and inspires people, and people will never go out of business."

Michael is a jerk but he's not a jerk on purpose. He actually cares about his employees (except for Toby, but he's gone now anyways). Ryan is an insensitive douchebag, but he knows that he's an insensitive douchebag and he doesn't care.

I really think that Ryan should have had more screen time this season. I know a little bit of his doucheyness goes a long way, but it just seems like they jammed too much in at the end. He was actually trying with the website at first. Then all of the sudden he stops caring about that and he starts caring about getting coked up, going after Jim, and screwing over the company and himself. He's probably going to be in prison for a long time - I wonder if he'll still be on the show at all?
 
hillers said:
Agreed. I also like that part before he goes to Pam's art show. He tells Ryan something like this: "A good manager hires and inspires people, and people will never go out of business."

Michael is a jerk but he's not a jerk on purpose. He actually cares about his employees (except for Toby, but he's gone now anyways). Ryan is an insensitive douchebag, but he knows that he's an insensitive douchebag and he doesn't care.

I really think that Ryan should have had more screen time this season. I know a little bit of his doucheyness goes a long way, but it just seems like they jammed too much in at the end. He was actually trying with the website at first. Then all of the sudden he stops caring about that and he starts caring about getting coked up, going after Jim, and screwing over the company and himself. He's probably going to be in prison for a long time - I wonder if he'll still be on the show at all?
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I also enjoy the moments where we get to see Michael excelling at sales. He's not a good manager, but he clearly has good people skills when it comes to sales.

I agree we didn't get to see enough of Ryan's downward spiral. I suspect that's probably to do with the strike-shortened season. Such a shame.
 
What's funny is that I have no problem with Michael being a jerk to Toby - for some reason the joke that Michael has a completely irrational hatred of Toby works for me. :wink:
 
I'm actually kind of hopeful for Michael's storyline with the new HR gal. It might make for more situations where the likeable Michael Scott comes forward.
 
LemonMacPhisto said:
I agree completely about Michael. He's the glue that holds the show together.

There's some sympathy for David in the Christmas Specials, after he's been fired, but that's about it.
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David Brent (at least for me) gains some sympathy at the end of season 2, and in the Christmas special.

The last 5 minutes of season 2 is especially tragic for David. Here's a man who nobody likes, and he's finally realized that he isn't who he thought he was....a chilled out entertainer.

I think at the end of the Christmas Special, you start to see David show a nicer side. He found a women who could handle his "jokes" and personality, and you kind of got a glimpse that for the first time in probably a long time David Brent could be happy.

Michael Scott does have a nice side, and the scene with Pam at the art show is very touching. This latest season though it's been very tough to root for MS because he's been so over the top, and there's been very little redeeming qualities.
 
corianderstem said:
What's funny is that I have no problem with Michael being a jerk to Toby - for some reason the joke that Michael has a completely irrational hatred of Toby works for me. :wink:
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"This is a place of welcoming, and you should get the hell out of here."

Toby did turn out to be a creep, though.

VintagePunk said:
I also enjoy the moments where we get to see Michael excelling at sales. He's not a good manager, but he clearly has good people skills when it comes to sales.

I agree we didn't get to see enough of Ryan's downward spiral. I suspect that's probably to do with the strike-shortened season. Such a shame.
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He's really just a guy who's been promoted to a spot that's too high for him.

Another thing I liked that was set-up this season was how much Jim acts like Michael whenever he's put in charge of the office. I really feel like we missed out on some great stuff because of the strike.
 
corianderstem said:
Oh, I don't think he was a creep. He was just a guy with an unrequited crush, and when he went too far (oops, my hand's on her knee!), his embarrassment resulted in hilarious fence-jumping!
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That was hilarious, but in the end, I still found him to be pathetic and slightly creepy.

Great Michaelisms about Toby:

Jan: No, Michael. We, we need an HR rep. So, uh, I think you should just bring Toby.
Michael: Hey, I'd rather kill myself.
Jan: Michael, he's your branch's HR rep...
Michael: [talking over Jan] No, Toby is terrible. Toby is the worst human being I've ever known.

Jim: Hey... how's Toby?
Michael: Toby Flenderson is everything that is wrong with the paper industry.
 
Not Toby-related, but I just thought of this and how hilarious Michael's delivery was:

Michael: Will they throw their hats, you think?
Ryan: What?
Michael: A lot of time at a school, or naval academy, after a rousing speech the crowd will throw its hats high into the air.
Ryan: You understand no ones graduating.
Michael: I know, I know. I'm just saying if they did throw their hats I've got a great line for that. 'May your hats fly as high as your dreams.'

(Also, I enjoy bumping threads above the Sex & the City thread... fucking hate everything about that show, probably because of my Y-chromosome.)
 
LemonMacPhisto said:
That was hilarious, but in the end, I still found him to be pathetic and slightly creepy.

Great Michaelisms about Toby:

Jan: No, Michael. We, we need an HR rep. So, uh, I think you should just bring Toby.
Michael: Hey, I'd rather kill myself.
Jan: Michael, he's your branch's HR rep...
Michael: [talking over Jan] No, Toby is terrible. Toby is the worst human being I've ever known.

Jim: Hey... how's Toby?
Michael: Toby Flenderson is everything that is wrong with the paper industry.
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Yeah, that last episode made him out to be very creepy, with the whole obsessing over the photo thing.

Another good Michael line: "I didn't hire an ex-convict. Unless they mean Toby. Convicted rapist."
 
I'm finishing off with this nugget:

"Holly is sweet, and simple. Like a lady baker. I would not be surprised to find out that she had worked in a bakery before coming here. She has that kind of warmth ... I'm pretty sure she's baked on a professional level."
 
How awful for you Sex and the City haters, to have to look at a thread title where there's people doing horrible things ... like talking about how they enjoy it!

Poor babies. Waaaaaah.
 
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