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Old 08-17-2007, 04:32 PM   #151
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Originally posted by Lancemc
And while I can understand hardcore fans of the Batman comics being upset by the changes, I say fuck them.
What an ignorant thing to say. Without the hardcore fans, there would be no comic book movies ever. The reason these films get made is because an idea which was originally in comic book form was so fantastic, it entered the mainstream of society. Hardcore fans are the reason why X-men, Spiderman, Batman, Superman and so on are around today 40, 50, and 60 plus years later. After this comic movie run ends, the hardcore fans will still be supporting the characters in their original form so a couple of generations from now, new fans can continue to enjoy the stories.

Most comic book films, like 80%, are shit because of one thing, they change stuff. Look at the recent Underdog movie, it has nothing to do with the original concept of the comic or cartoon and thus is shite.
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Old 08-17-2007, 04:38 PM   #152
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Originally posted by Lancemc

Instead of just being a white-colored freak, he's an insane sociopath that puts on clown make-up before going out and terrorizing people.

I love it.

I agree.

Looking at the 2nd to last picture and thinking of the voice from the teaser trailer, I think your description pretty much sums it up
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Old 08-17-2007, 04:43 PM   #153
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Originally posted by Lancemc


The Joker is still The Joker. Why does he need to be mutated to have white skin? That doesn't mean anything. I stand by what I said about his character and the make-up. I think it's the best choice.
The bleached skin is an essential part of the character, both mentally and superficially. At the end of the day, Batman can go home, take off his cowl, iron his pants, even retire. The Joker is the Joker for life. He's incurable and is reminded of that by his own reflection.

The Joker wearing make-up is like Harvey wearing a fake scar.
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Old 08-17-2007, 04:43 PM   #154
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Originally posted by trevster2k

Most comic book films, like 80%, are shit because of one thing, they change stuff. Look at the recent Underdog movie, it has nothing to do with the original concept of the comic or cartoon and thus is shite.
Wrong.

Most comic book films are shit because of one of or any combination of the following,

A: The original comic/concept was never any good to begin with

B: The comic was just never well suited for a film adaptation anyway

C: Shit filmmakers behind the project
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Old 08-17-2007, 04:46 PM   #155
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Originally posted by Slapnutz

The bleached skin is an essential part of the character, both mentally and superficially. At the end of the day, Batman can go home, take off his cowl, iron his pants, even retire. The Joker is the Joker for life. He's incurable and is reminded of that by his own reflection.

The Joker wearing make-up is like Harvey wearing a fake scar.
I'm not saying he hasn't changed the character a bit. He obviously has. But I am saying that the change is going to be a good one for the film.

And really, a sociopath is always going to be a sociopath. The insanity and villainy of The Joker is still intact, it's just a different appearance and method. A method which I think is already much more terrifying and effective.
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Old 08-17-2007, 04:55 PM   #156
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Originally posted by Lancemc


I'm not saying he hasn't changed the character a bit. He obviously has. But I am saying that the change is going to be a good one for the film.

And really, a sociopath is always going to be a sociopath. The insanity and villainy of The Joker is still intact, it's just a different appearance and method. A method which I think is already much more terrifying and effective.
Have you ever read Batman #1 and #2, Lance? These are the main inspiration for Nolan's Joker. He described both stories as being "eerily close" to his interpretation.
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Old 08-17-2007, 04:57 PM   #157
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Originally posted by Canadiens1160
More like the Bat Office.


I've never been that attached to Batman but the last movie really impressed me, I personally don't have a problem with Nolan taking the standard Batman conventions to different places. I hope this movie is as good as the last.
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Old 08-17-2007, 04:58 PM   #158
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No I haven't, and we haven't seen the film either, so who can say what the plot is.

But all I've heard since Batman Begins was announced was how frustrated all the comic fans were about what he's been doing to their beloved franchise.

My believe is this. As long as he does everything he can to create the absolute best film he can, no matter what the source material, he's done a good thing.
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Old 08-17-2007, 05:12 PM   #159
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Originally posted by Lancemc
No I haven't, and we haven't seen the film either, so who can say what the plot is.

But all I've heard since Batman Begins was announced was how frustrated all the comic fans were about what he's been doing to their beloved franchise.

My believe is this. As long as he does everything he can to create the absolute best film he can, no matter what the source material, he's done a good thing.
The Batman fans worship Nolan. In fact, it's actually quite scary. It's just his version of the Joker many take issue with.

Anyway, in Batman 1 and 2 the Joker wears flesh coloured make up to conceal his true identity (he's always been billed as the master of disguise) and his entire body is revealed to be perm-white. I think it's no coincidence Nolan cites these two issues.
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Old 08-17-2007, 05:14 PM   #160
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I want a pair...
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Old 08-17-2007, 05:18 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lancemc


Wrong.

Most comic book films are shit because of one of or any combination of the following,

A: The original comic/concept was never any good to begin with

B: The comic was just never well suited for a film adaptation anyway

C: Shit filmmakers behind the project
These are indeed factors as to why the films suck but the changing of the original source material is a factor too. Because then the whole character or story is weakened by the supposed improvement by a director or studio execs who want their vision of the character of the film. Actually, 80% of all films are shit anyway regardless of what inspires them.

But go read Frank Miller's run on Daredevil regarding the Elektra Saga and you will understand what I and other fans have problems with when comics are put on film. This is just one example. Nolan did a good job with Batman Begins and hopefully the final cut of the film will surpass the first.

For the record , I find your posts to be very rude at times and condescending. Grow up and respect the interests and opinions of others.
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Old 08-17-2007, 05:43 PM   #162
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Originally posted by trevster2k


These are indeed factors as to why the films suck but the changing of the original source material is a factor too. Because then the whole character or story is weakened by the supposed improvement by a director or studio execs who want their vision of the character of the film. Actually, 80% of all films are shit anyway regardless of what inspires them.
This is 100% spot-on. I was reading James Cameron's treatment/script of Spider-Man online last night... it was terrible. I'm a huge Cameron fan, but it was almost like he said "okay, let me take a beloved superhero, re-write the backstory that makes him great, and just make it bloated and visually amazing."

I'm all for making the best movie possible, and Nolan made a solid base for a potentially great series, but if too many liberties are taken with the character/story, then it's laying a big Cameronshit over everything.

(and Michael Biehn would've been Spidey, love the guy but that would've been absolutely terrible.)
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Old 08-17-2007, 06:48 PM   #163
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Originally posted by trevster2k

For the record , I find your posts to be very rude at times and condescending. Grow up and respect the interests and opinions of others.
I respect the opinions of people who engage in discussions that they can intelligently participate in. You have been one such person. Otherwise, I make no effort to "play nice" on an anonymous internet forum so as not to "offend" anyone.

I'm here to share information, debate and discussion, not to make friends (as many here are so quick to point out. ). I have "real life" for that.

So spare the lecture, kay?

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Old 08-17-2007, 06:51 PM   #164
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This is 100% spot-on. I was reading James Cameron's treatment/script of Spider-Man online last night... it was terrible. I'm a huge Cameron fan, but it was almost like he said "okay, let me take a beloved superhero, re-write the backstory that makes him great, and just make it bloated and visually amazing."

I'm all for making the best movie possible, and Nolan made a solid base for a potentially great series, but if too many liberties are taken with the character/story, then it's laying a big Cameronshit over everything.

(and Michael Biehn would've been Spidey, love the guy but that would've been absolutely terrible.)
I actually liked a lot of the ideas Cameron had in his scriptment (if wasn't a script, just to point out an important difference). He really changed the Peter Parker character, and you know I love Raimi's Spiderman films, but Cameron's vision would have been extremely interesting. A more adult and truly conflicted Parker would make for an interesting film, and Cameron's take on Electro opened up a lot of possibilities for some amazing action (a lot of scenes in Cameron's treatment ended up in Raimi's films anyway, shot for shot in some cases), including the truly impressive final battle which I would have loved to see in film.

Spiderman 2 is a damn near perfect film. 1 and 3 aren't that hot, and I think Cameron's Spiderman would have been a better film than either of those two turned out to be.
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Old 08-17-2007, 11:47 PM   #165
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Originally posted by Lancemc


I actually liked a lot of the ideas Cameron had in his scriptment (if wasn't a script, just to point out an important difference). He really changed the Peter Parker character, and you know I love Raimi's Spiderman films, but Cameron's vision would have been extremely interesting. A more adult and truly conflicted Parker would make for an interesting film, and Cameron's take on Electro opened up a lot of possibilities for some amazing action (a lot of scenes in Cameron's treatment ended up in Raimi's films anyway, shot for shot in some cases), including the truly impressive final battle which I would have loved to see in film.

Spiderman 2 is a damn near perfect film. 1 and 3 aren't that hot, and I think Cameron's Spiderman would have been a better film than either of those two turned out to be.
Yes, a good portion of Cameron's scriptment (that's what it's called apparently) was in Koepp's draft, but I don't want to see a conflicted, adult Peter Parker. I'd rather see Tony Stark or Bruce Wayne like that, you know?

To pull off Spidey, there has to be that humor while still being action-packed and have some emotional drama. I think Raimi's one of the only directors around who has the ability to do that, not Cameron, at least for me.

I could see Cameron making a kick-ass Superman movie, hell, how amazing would it have been if he did Transformers (not a comic, I know, but stick with me here)?

James Cameron, the golden god that he is, would not have been able to make a good Spider-Man movie, pure and simple.
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