The Ice Dance judges should be shot...

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The_Sweetest_Thing

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and pissed on at sunrise....particularly the Italian judge. And I'm half Italian, no doubt, so don't take this as a racist comment.

The top 10 teams not moving in their standings? Puh-leaze. Somebody get me a bag to throw up in.

Where the Isralei (sp?) were clearly lacking...their edges and basics of skating were terrible.

The Italins were sad. Well, Maurizio Margalio was. Barbara Fusar-Poli was phenomenal as usual. But she did slip. In fact, they both did. AND he had trouble in the footwork section.

Oh, but the judges have brought in mandatory deductions for stumbles. Mmmm hmmm.....do they use them, ever? I'm disgusted. This is a gross injustice.

I'm sorry. Shae-Lynn Bourne and Victor Kraatz deserve to be thrid. This isn't nationalistic pride here. This is truth.

On the plus side, Jamie and David receive their golds for pairs soon. So I suppose there is SOME justice in this world.
 
*sigh* I watch ice dancing as if it were an exhibition sport now. The judging is just way too vague and subjective. After Lillehammer, I pretty much gave up on it.

oh and that medals ceremony was superb. Smiles all around.
smile.gif


-sula
 
Damn right I'll be watching that free skate. And I'll be grumpy, no doubt.

It's sad that it's getting so predictable. The French will be first. The Russians second. The Italians third. The Canadians fourth. Etc.

I'll be angry, the crowd will revolt. Commentators will be disgusted. Dick Pound will throw a fit. Shae and Vic will smile and wave politely. Canada can't do anything b/c we've already complained once, and we'll risk looking like sore losers. The IOC will laugh and pretend to conduct an investigation into these block judging accusations. They'll find nothing, obviously. Ottavio CInquanta will pay off a bunch of people and keep his job...

In a perfect world, the French win, Russians second, Shae and Vic third, Fusar Poli and Margalio foruth (Take that Barbara! ---She's a bit conceited, I think). Ice dancing gets cleaned up. Ottavio Cinquanta doesn't get re-elcted. The sport becomes 'fair.' Etc...

This isn't never neverland. It won't happen.

*sigh* A girl can dream, can't she?
 
see, I was somewhat confused last night...I thought that mandatory deductions meant they would take off points if you messed up on things.
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But that nice slip'n'slide by the Italians didn't seem to phase the judges. *shakes head*

Oh well. Enjoy Olympic ice-dancing while it lasts...I've a feeling it won't be around for much longer.

-sula
 
I heard a rumor that next year and from now on they'll have 14 judges marking the skaters. Tehn 9 of those marks will randomly be picked and counted. The judges will not know which of them will be chosen. Sounds like a plan--will it work? I don't know...
 
ummm, is it just me or is using Dr. Martin Luther King's 'I have a Dream' speech in an ice-dance just a tad bit...errrr...tacky.
 
Excuse me, because I really don't do this very often, but oh CRAP. That's all I can think of.

I don't know if I'm ever going to watch another ice dance competition. It's too depressing. I didn't like the top three teams at all. The French are just repeating themselves. What a one-note team. I didn't see the complex choreography that the commentators were talking about. I didn't like the Italians and then he fell down on something that for professional ice dancers looked childishly easy. And then Bourne and Kraatz skated great and fell at the end. A Canadian tradition is established (think Sale and Pelletier's short program). I suspect they would have finished fourth anyway because of the giant joke that ice dance judging is. But now they will never know if maybe, just maybe, they would have got the bronze. That certainly killed their tiny chances right there. What a depressing career they must have had. Such a great team and always held done because of those braindead morons the ice dance judges. And as I said, this time they really won't know. Maybe, just maybe, if they had finished their great skate perfectly, the mistake by the Italians would have made the difference. But now we'll never know. (And as I said, I doubt it.) I bet poor Victor will never ever forgive himself.

Oh, and people who have MLK talking in their music (the French) and people who reference Sept 11 (the Russians--their piece of music is about Sept 11, apparently, and didn't she just look like a building collapsing the way she slid down at the end) deserve big, fat, automatic deductions. What a disgusting and tacky attempt to pander to the Americans. I am physically ill.

I'll shut up now before I make myself a whole lot angrier.

------------------
Your sun so bright it leaves no shadows, only scars
Carved into stone on the face of earth
The moon is up and over One Tree Hill
We see the sun go down in your eyes


[This message has been edited by scatteroflight (edited 02-18-2002).]
 
so, The_Sweetest_Thing...are you watching the free skate tonite? My guess...none of the rankings change. The Italian judge votes the Italians number 1, the Swiss judge stays as grumpy as they were last night, and Bourne and Kraatz get placed fourth or fifth.

I miss Torvill and Dean, dammit.
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I am giggling because of the Bolero comment.

I have to admit I am not juch of an ice skating/dancing/ whatever fan until I saw the short track.

I like to yell and scream a lot at sports I watch and when my choice is either Ice Dancing (girlfriend's choice) and Curling (not really my choice, but it was on and what the hell is it anyway...) I have to watch Ice Dancing.

First of all - no country should be judged by their own country (i.e. Italy, Russia, France...) It is ridiculous.

If you ask me I would have given the gold to the Candians.

I loved the MJ, I loved when they fell on their heads, and I love how they tried to cover it up.
 
Originally posted by ouizy:


I loved the MJ, I loved when they fell on their heads, and I love how they tried to cover it up.

Yes, they did fall quite artistically, didn't they!

I'm not an MJ fan but that was a pretty cool program (thought I felt like the slow bit in the middle was a bit...slow.)



------------------
Your sun so bright it leaves no shadows, only scars
Carved into stone on the face of earth
The moon is up and over One Tree Hill
We see the sun go down in your eyes
 
oh dear. Has anyone seen the latest? The Lithuanians have lodged a protest over unfair judging last night.
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Lithuania protests at ice dance


SALT LAKE CITY, Feb 19 (Reuters) - Lithuania launched a protest against the judging in Monday's ice dance competition after their skaters finished fifth.

``A protest has been filed overnight and is in the hands of the event referee, Alexandr Gorshkov,'' an ISU spokeswoman said. Lithuania have announced a news conference for 2200 GMT.

Lithuania's Margarita Drobiazko and Povilas Vanagas came fifth behind French gold medallists Marina Anissina and Gwendal Peizerat. The appeal surrounds the free dance element of the competition on Monday.

Both the Italian and Canadian pairs, who finished third and fourth, fell in the free dance and the Lithuanians skated without an obvious flaw.

``After the Italians fell on the required elements the judges put them ahead of us ... it was funny, just funny,'' Drobiazko said on Monday.

``We skated better tonight than them and they fell, and nothing changed.''

The judges' marks showed that technically the Lithuanians were comparable with the Italians and the Canadians, but on presentation they were scored lower.

The Russian, Swiss and Italian judges had them fourth in the free dance. The Lithuanian judge had them third, Germany, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria and Poland had them fifth, and Ukraine sixth.

Actually, I'm not surprised. Like I said earlier, they certainly seemed the most passionate and skated perfectly. A guy friend of mine was watching with me last night and he kept saying "I liked those other people...the Lithuanians."

Yep, ice-dance needs serious help. Jayne Torvill and Christopher Dean, do you have children?
 
The Lithuanians were the only ones with no mistakes. I think the Italian couple's fall was much sloppier and more obvious than Borne and Kraatz's, which happened at the end. At first I thought they had 'died on the ice' like Torvill and Dean, and I thought, hey I thought that was outlawed years ago! I will always doubt if the outcome was fair due to what we heard about the French being predetermined to win.
 
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4:


Actually, I'm not surprised. Like I said earlier, they certainly seemed the most passionate and skated perfectly. A guy friend of mine was watching with me last night and he kept saying "I liked those other people...the Lithuanians."

They did skate well but I used to like them more. They had a beautiful program a year or two ago to something called Spente le Stelle (if I'm thinking of the right people.) They're getting a little phony like most of the top people seem to do, I think. The top three pairs were totally phony. Bourne and Kraatz are very genuine, one reason I like them.



------------------
Your sun so bright it leaves no shadows, only scars
Carved into stone on the face of earth
The moon is up and over One Tree Hill
We see the sun go down in your eyes
 
Yeah, I don't think I've ever seen a more lack-luster ice-dancing competition. Whatever happened to innovative dances? It seems to my foggy memory that 92 and 94 at least had such a better field of teams and much better performances. One team that did surprise me was the Lithuanians. They put out the best performance of the night in my opinion, certainly should have ranked at least as high if not higher than the Italians with their lovely fall and everything. But c'est la vie.

I never thought I'd say this, but this is one "sport" that I wouldn't be sad to see leave the Olympics. Keep the real figure skating...but the ice-dancing...I think it's proven time and again that it can't be judged objectively.

*hums a requiem to the tune of Bolero*
 
Originally posted by The_Sweetest_Thing:

The top 10 teams not moving in their standings? Puh-leaze. Somebody get me a bag to throw up in.

Tell me about it. Sometimes I don't even know why they actually hold a competition. They could just hold the medal ceremony at the beginning, since they obviously have determined the winners before the competition even starts
rolleyes.gif
 
here's a commentary about ice-dance judging that I found amusing.
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Will judging reforms steal skating?s drama?
True competiton could be, well, boring

COMMENTARY

SALT LAKE CITY, Feb. 19 ? I haven?t had any nibbles to become a figure skating judge, and I thought sure I would, based on my demonstrable tendency to stress personal preference over actual performance, not to mention a quite legendary refusal to see both sides of any issue

MAYBE I JUST DON?T have the requisite, highly strung suggestibility, like the French chanteuse, Madame Le Gougne, who is so happily agreeable, always telling the last person she talks to whatever they want to hear. Madame has been suspended indefinitely by the International Skating Union for misconduct, but now she wants do-overs. She has recanted everything, she swears to L?Equipe that she voted her ?conscience and soul? for the Russians in the pairs event, and has reneged on her tearful statement that she was under ?enormous pressure? from her own federation, presumably in a vote-trading deal to give the French a medal in ice dancing.

Perhaps she is bipolar. Or maybe she has tri-polar disorder. First ever diagnosed case.

At any rate, the judging at these Olympic Games has been thoroughly compromised, and no revolutionary new scoring system proposed by Ottavio Cinquanta, president of the ISU, nor slow creeping secret investigation, can save it before the torch goes out. So the only thing to do is to keep your own scorecard. I myself decided to judge the ice dancing, using my own criteria. For instance:

Do they love each other?

Wait a moment. I think Wilbon is trying to signal me. He is using his necktie. If it?s skewed to the right, it means he wants me to mark the skaters down. If it?s skewed to the left, they get the gold.

Or is it the other way around?

Here come the Italians. I don?t like their footwear ? automatic deduction! The flesh-colored skates are so creepy; it looks like they have blades growing out of their feet. I am going to mark them down by three-tenths of a point for that.

Then there is the unfortunate fact of their performance in the 1999 Helsinki Grand Prix, where they committed that slight misstep in their straight-line footwork. Off with their heads.

A moment please. Wilbon is signaling me yet again. He is trying to catch my eye by walking on his hands across the table, scissor-kicking his legs. The Korean couple has taken the ice, and I think he finds their costuming truly unforgivable.

I must say, I do think their routine would be enlivened if the lions that shredded their clothes were released onto the ice. That would be a real contest: Can they maintain their composure and perform those fanciful moves while pursued by wild beasts?

Also, I do wonder why so many ice dancers have Dukes of Hazzard hair and such demonic makeup jobs ? there seem to be two levels: by the bucket, and by the barrel.
Now, some people might have a problem with a system of judging that deducts points based on hair and makeup. Figure skating?s subjective judging system has long been criticized because it leaves so much room for improprieties. There are those, like Cinquanta, who propose that deductions should only be taken for mistakes and missed elements, but what fun is it if you can?t mark skaters down based on your own rigid and narrow personal aesthetics? If you force the judges to judge less obscurely? Especially when the event is ice dancing, which, ever since they outlawed real creativity and popular appeal in the Torvill and Dean backlash, is hardly anything but an exercise in aesthetics?

If you reform the judging, then you let in sheer anarchy. As it is, things are neat and orderly. The skaters, coaches and judges can tell you before a major competition who has already won. And who hasn?t. They say things like: ?Well, the judges aren?t familiar with her? or ?He could do well in a few years after the judges get to know him? and so on. Everyone knows, going into a competition, which skaters are actually in position to win.

Reform the judging, and you take all the sordid, seamy drama out of the sport. Imagine figure skating, if it was no longer rigged. Why, it would be no different than the bobsled, plodding and uneventful, a slave to who actually finishes first, second and third. (I have a suggestion on how to improve that sport. Lower the rails.). There would be no room for petty vindictiveness, for clandestine deals, foot-tapping signals, mavenry, and ministering of personal taste.
You don?t have to know synchronization from a slap shot to know a crooked deal, and the ice skating in Salt Lake is bent. (Even short track speedskating is more honest than figs. In that sport, should you take a dislike to a fellow competitor, all you have to do is hook him with your skate and send him hurtling into the wall. It?s perfectly legal.)

So maybe the thing to do with the ice dancing, since it?s so compromised, is make them all skate at once. On a short track. Cross-checking is allowed.

Last couple standing, wins.
 
I was unable to get onto the internet the last two nights. So I'll throw my comments in now, as usual...

First off I thought it was disgusting that practically every team did some cheesy, overwrought, over-rated Tribute-to-America type shpeal. Nice thought and all, but really... I would have rather seen every team do something innovative and unique. Oh, but wait, this is ice dance. Since the judging is fixed, we may as well try and win sentiment from the crowd so we feel like we got marked somewhat...

Now, I'm a huge fan of the French, Anissina and Peizerat. They had some awesome lifts, some nice moments. But that wasn't their best program, not by a long shot. MLK? Really, in France?

The Russians? Good. Lacked speed. Lacked lustre, I suppose. I didn't even watch them really.

The Italians? Oh god, shoot me. Margalio is possibly the worst male skater out there. He pushes out from his toe pick, not his edges...no wonder he fell. He can't keep up with his partner. After they fell, their program went downhill. It fell apart, both technically and artistically. They were shaken up..their skating suffered. You could see it in their body language too. *sigh*

Okay, Canadians. Theirs was the most innovative, crowd-pleasing program yet. It was original, clean, deep edges, soft knees, etc. Technically, I was astounded. They were great. Artistically, they were wonderful. They were into the program, they were happy, showing off, just..spectacular. I was genuinely impressed by their performance. Not just because I'm Canadian. But because I've never seen them skate so together in my life.

Their fall was, well, rough. It didn't disturb the program though. It almost looked planned. Poor, poor Victor Kraatz. My heart goes out to him. He looked so upset after, declined interviews, etc. I still believe in my heart that they deserved at least 3rd.

I think Barbara Underhill summed it up best when she said "They gave the judges an out." Had they skated cleanly, they would clearly have come third. Controversy would have arisen if not. But they really gave the judges the best possible gift ever--an out. *sigh* Poor, poor Victor Kraatz. I don't he and Shae will stick it ut another 4 years. She's 26, he's 30. It's sad b/c he wanted to retire after the last Olympics. He was fed up with the judging, etc. But Shae convinced him to come back, they trained like mad. I feel soooo bad for him.

It's really a shame that the judges barely penalized the Italians for their fall. But the Canadians had so many marks taken off (yet, they were marked as high as 2nd by somejudges, as low as 5th from the Russian and Italian judge). And the Russian guy, Ilia Aberbuch,making more than one revolution in the air. Tsk, tsk. An automatic deduction. Oh wait. I forgot. They can do no wrong. We'll just pretend that didn't happen then.

The Lithuanians were fantabulous. I mean, they were great from a technical standpoint, and artistically, they were dramatic, wonderful. I'm sure they'll be on the podium next Olympics.

Grr...throw the whole sport out. I'm so sick and tired of this.

[This message has been edited by The_Sweetest_Thing (edited 02-20-2002).]
 
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