yolland
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Yes, it's an interesting article. The part about the long history of spoken-word art forms, and in particular "verbal dueling," in West African culture reminds me of a fantastic course I took in college on troubador literature. The professor, whose rather obscure specialty was Welsh troubador poetry, invited a visiting African scholar who specialized in Bantu oral culture (can't recall which country; he was Xhosa, but I don't think South African) to lecture to us for one session on African spoken-word traditions and their connections to rap and hip-hop, as a way of offering some cross-cultural perspective on some of the poetic modes we'd been studying (in particular Welsh englyn, an elaborately metered form that bards often used for 'playing the dozens' by--very, very lewdly--slamming one another while boasting about themselves). While they were preparing the lecture, our professor showed this visiting scholar one such englyn we'd studied, in which the famous (well, famous in Wales, anyway) 14th-century troubador Dafydd ap Gwilym skewers one of his bardic archrivals. The African professor loved it and offered to 'perform' it, Xhosa-style, in class along with some of the African and African-American examples he'd collected. I still vividly recall the spectacle of watching him go from standard professorial mode, drily lecturing on the role of spoken-word poetry in Bantu traditions, to pacing and pivoting and pumping his fists in the air for emphasis as he growled and bellowed his way through, first, a spectacular political protest poem in Xhosa, then H. Rap Brown's famous rap from Die ****** Die ("Yes, I'm hemp the demp the women's pimp/Women fight for my delight/I'm a baaad motherfucker/Rap the rip-saw, the devil's brother in law/I roam the world, I'm known to wander/and this .45 is where I get my thunder/...And ain't nothing bad 'bout you but your breath"), then finally Gwilym's englyn in translation ("Stained with gulped meat, you swaddled tomcat/Sound of a heaving, constipated gut sucking the hollowest sour apples/Since you don't know, you angry thruster with sticky shit-lump pants/Your awdl from your englyn/...Run! and drink your tavern-dregs").dr. zooeuss said:BTW, not sure how much you want to pursue this topic, but I recently read this great article about the roots and development of hiphop-
http://www7.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0704/feature4/index.html
I consider it a little on the academic side of a subject that isn't necessarily designed with extensive analysis in mind, but it does a thorough job, and gave me some new insights into the genre.
(Also, since the topic has come up: I love the Beatles, and think they deserve all the credit they get, but I tend to see Elvis as very over-rated, though I'll admit I haven't done a lot of reading up on him.)
So, yeah, these so-called "underground," "lowbrow" forms often have much deeper and more complex roots than we imagine, but their 'profane' qualities do make them vulnerable to being canned, pasteurized and marketed as nothing more than titillating shock-value fantasy fodder.
As far as Elvis goes, I'm not much of a fan either, and tend to see whatever greatness he had more in terms of Elvis the performer than Elvis the musician. Then there's all the controversies surrounding the the irony of a white boy raised in Tupelo and Memphis making it big by playing 'black music' in the Jim Crow era...Still, the consequences of his success for the future development of rock were enormous regardless of 'talent', and that's a major reason why he remains such a celebrated figure.
I think you may have taken that as a more generalized statement than I intended. I meant that rock is characterized as a genre by a specific combination of twelve-bar progressions, backbeat, throaty vocal timbre, and an ensemble based on the particular instrument, the guitar, plus drums. Not that any one of those characteristics, let alone 'similar' traits, can't be occasionally or even regularly found in other genres, whether 'classical' or 'traditional.' While I think rock (and country, and pop, and rap, and perhaps some jazz) might be better compared to the latter than the former for the purposes of the thread topic, I don't necessarily see them as wholly comfortable fits for that particular sense of the term 'folk,' if nothing else on account on the scope of influence they've had (and absorbed).Actually I've been surprised when listening to (an admittedly rather small amount) of traditional folk music, i guess i'm thinking primarily of West African, Middle Eastern and East Asian, (and definietly European) that I have heard combinations of throaty, solo vocals, drum (or other percussion), and some sort of stringed instrument with surprising frequency. I may have the wrong impression about how common it is, but in some ways I don't see an enormous stylistic distinction between the evolution of late 19th and 20th Century blues into rock and what we consider "pop" music today.
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Also, maybe from an uneducated 21st Century perspective, when I listen to recordings of traditional folk music originating centuries ago 1) perhaps I insert 20th century sophistications into the music when I'm listening which aren't really there, and//or 2) maybe the musicians playing them in the age of recorded music, despite their best efforts not to, may be inserting more modern musical conventions into their performances than they're aware of.
I listen to a fair amount of 'traditional' music too (Indian, West African, South African, Moroccan, Scandinavian, Celtic, Balkan, Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jewish, mostly), and yeah, you definitely hear BOTH plenty of surprisingly familiar, yet thoroughly 'traditional' elements--backbeat in Celtic music, twelve-bar progressions in West African, 'open-throated' singing and various kinds of drums in most all of them--as well as plenty of 'newfangled' introductions (Irish folk artists using acoustic guitar, South Indian artists using violin, Scandinavian artists covering a Hungarian folk dance that happens to share metrical similarities to their own forms) in the process.
Sort of--I'm not very knowledgeable on this topic, but there's a decent-looking Wikipedia entry on it (the Critical Period Hypothesis). I have no idea to what extent comparable theories might exist concerning spatio-temporal skill acquisition, though.It reminds me of the notion that young children are better at learning languages before the age of six or so. Do you think there could be a connection between the concepts? I haven't heard the Mozart Effect people specifically claim that it's most effective before a certain age, but the increased language acquisition capacity before a certain age is more or less accepted as fact, isn't it?
It may be hairsplitting, but personally I prefer to think of the difference more in historical--thoughly closely related--terms, along the lines of what I was saying earlier about the (extremely structurally diverse) array of works conventionally lumped together as 'classical' being united above all else by having been developed and transmitted using a standardized system of written notation. Granted, in our present era almost any genre can avail itself of those same techniques--thanks to the analytical tools the classical tradition developed--but still it isn't central to them in the way it is to classical. (Caveat: I'm speaking only of the history of Western music here; several Asian 'classical' traditions have their own notation systems, and the ancient Greeks had one too, though it was 'lost' with the fall of the Roman Empire.) And the development of that system of musical notation introduced new possibilities for innovation, transmission, and further refinement of 'musical thought,' so to speak, in a similar fashion to what written language did for cultures which developed that. That's not to say that music developed through such means is "superior" or magically bestowed with unprecedented sophistication merely by virtue of being written (let alone being 'pleasanter to listen to'), but it does impose certain tendencies on the directions it heads in from there.So the essential distinction between classical and folk then deals with the complexity of the music, and the presence of musical features such as polyphony, phrase length variation, modulation, etc. I can buy that (though I'm not intimately familiar with the nuances of those terms off the top of my head).
I'm more often found in FYM than B&C (and this is really a pretty FYM-y thread, I must say), but any regular FYMer could tell you I do tend to go on at length about things.Wow, thanks. You wouldn't consider writing an interference essay on all of this, would you?
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