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Old 09-21-2003, 02:08 PM   #16
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again... show me some proof that he's on roids. just because he got bigger, whoopty doo. that doesn't do it for me. it's quite possiable that he IS on roids. pac bell was built with a short right field porch... on purpose... for bonds. yes, the rest of the park isn't great for hitters, but right field certainly is. EVERYONE's numbers are inflated of late... may it be "juiced balls," decreased strike zones, smaller parks, and expansion watering down pitching staffs. steroid users, especially ones who are up in age, develop nagging injuries that take a long time to heal, if they heal at all. this has not happened with bonds. he's been 100% healthy his entire career. now i'm not going to rule out that bonds might be on roids, but to say he deffinetly is just based on his numbers is stupid, and it is something that would not happen if bonds was considered to be a "good guy" in the press.
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Old 09-21-2003, 07:15 PM   #17
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sosa is a perceived as a good guy and everyone thinks he's on roids, same as mcgwire, so thats nonsense
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Old 09-21-2003, 07:30 PM   #18
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U mean greatest athlets of america?
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Old 09-22-2003, 10:24 AM   #19
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nope... greatest athletes in the world (my #2 athlete happened to be from canada, not america )

i'm surprised no one's mentioned beckham or anything

anyways... my last thing on bonds.

in every single sport, it is an accepted fact that athletes today are bigger, stronger, faster than athletes of 10,20,50 years ago. every sport but one... baseball. in baseball there's always some sort of excuse out there on why the old time ball players are so much better than today's... roids, strike zone, height of the pitcher's mound, smaller ballparks, diluted pitching staffs, the DH, yadda yadda yadda. no one can accept the fact that these players just might be as good as the one's of yester-year. so now if everything is so much easier today for the hitters, then explain maddux, johnson, clemmens, pedro, schilling, smoltz and gagne... if people are going to argue that it's so much easier for hitters today, then the pitchers who put up phenominal stats must be the greatest pitchers of all time for being able to overcome those factors. anyway... you don't have to agree. i just put my 5 up and explained why. still haven't heard your 5 yet chiz... throw 'em out, and in a couple days i'll put everyone mentioned into a poll and let people vote.
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Old 09-22-2003, 04:17 PM   #20
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Pitchers are worse today than say, 30 years ago. There are more teams, which has watered the talent pool down, as well as increased priority being put on the bullpen. There are so fucking many of them that are specialists, face only lefties or righties, and only have 1 out pitch. If they're off on nite they're giving up HR's galore. We'll have what? 3 or 4 20 game winners this year,
check out the total number of 20-game winners by decade in the expansion era:

1960s: 73
1970s: 96
1980s: 37
1990s: 34
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Old 09-22-2003, 04:46 PM   #21
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well there were more teams in the 1970s then there were in the 1960s... so how come there were 23 more 20 game winners in the 70s?
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Old 09-22-2003, 05:01 PM   #22
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I think this depends on how you define athlete. Personally, I would say the following adjectives should be considered when defining an "athlete." Again, in my opinion, strength, agility, speed, explosivness, coordination, and endurance make one athletic. I think to be a great athlete one must use all these skills in their sport.

Other definitions of athlete could also be championships won, how you change the sport, what you overcame, etc.
Those however, in my opinion, are the product of many variables, not just being a great athlete. I guess these things usually go hand-in-hand with being a good or great athlete. I just do not think one can say, for instance, that Tiger is a better pure athlete than a great number of people.

Note, I am leaving off soccer (football) players because I do not know enough about individual players to have an educated opinion on whos the best. In my opinion though I would say that the best soccer players are significantly more athletic (based on my definition) than any baseball player ever will be. To be a great soccer player one has to be an incredible athlete.
* edit (same as above goes for Tennis players)

In my opinion I would some of the top athletes in the last 20 years.

- Hicham El Guerrouj
- Lance Armstong
- Michael Jordan
- Michael Johnson
- Grete Waitz
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Old 09-22-2003, 05:04 PM   #23
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I don't know why the 70's had more than the 60's, but they still had almost 3x the number of 20 game winners as the 90's. Also, offense sell tickets, the owners know that, so do the umps. And don't think this new questec thingy isn't hurting pitchers as well, the borderline pitch goes to the hitter, not the pitcher.
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Old 09-23-2003, 08:57 AM   #24
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I agree with all but Montana, Armstrong
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Old 09-23-2003, 10:44 AM   #25
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once again... if you are right in saying that everything is geared towards hitting today, more than ever in the history of baseball, then the great pitchers of today... randy johnson, roger clemmoes, greg maddux, pedro martinez... are the greatest pitchers of all time, because they can overcome all these factors lined up against them and still put up numbers comparable to the seavers, gibsons and walter johnson's of the world. but baseball fans don't want to do that...

my only argument is this... the greatest of the greats could play in any era... be it bonds, mays, ruth or cobb... randy johnson, tom seaver, bob gibson or walter johnson. the greats would be great any era.
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Old 09-23-2003, 11:04 AM   #26
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The pitchers of today are good, but the complete game is considered special now, when it used to be what was expected from a pitcher. Oh, and those old timers used to come to the plate 4x a game as well.
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Old 09-23-2003, 12:07 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by MissVelvetDress_75
now is this just in relation to N. American athletes?

i would add Pele to this list.
MVD's real list would be -

Maddux
Glavine (yeah, I know he's gone)
Javie Lopez
Andrew Jones
Chipper Jones

!!! !!! !!!

Iris' dream team.
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Old 11-24-2005, 11:47 AM   #28
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I figure its time to ressurrect this.

In lieu of the steroid talk now (that and I already typed a response then I just noticed how old this is, lol)


I agree with Chizip on the bond's issue. Its pretty obvious. Palmeiro was considered a "good" guy also, now no one wants to know him.

You want proof Bond's is on the roids. Go check his cap size. Roids make your head size increase. There is really no way to naturally do this. Look at pictures now and in the 90's. Its huge now.


Also you say his HR totals were that of 1993.....thats ONE YEAR way back 12 years ago. Come now.

(cough, Balco)


I will say this, he does seem to have a different strike zone than the rest of the players though. His is a postage stamp, I dont know why pitches that are called strikes for other players are not called strikes for him.
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Old 11-24-2005, 12:00 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheBrush
You want proof Bond's is on the roids. Go check his cap size. Roids make your head size increase. There is really no way to naturally do this. Look at pictures now and in the 90's. Its huge now.
eh hem...

my hat size has increased in the past 4 years.

the only steroid i've taken is brewed in dublin.

i believe chizip once pointed this out... thanks again.



do i believe barry bonds was on steroids? yes. is there any scientific proof of this that's ever been made public? no.

but i feel no need to argue over a 2 year old thread.
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Old 11-24-2005, 12:05 PM   #30
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In no particular order.

1. Michael Johnson (athletics)
2. Tiger Woods (Golf)
3. Pete Sampras (tennis)
4. Diego Maradona (Football)
5. Lance Armstrong (cycling)
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