The 2007-08 NHL Hockey thread

[MsMofoGone]

Originally posted by LarryMullen's_POPAngel
So?

And, I'm sorry, but comparing AHL/NHL is like comparing apples and oranges.

The Wolves have the BEST start in their AHL franchise history. How many other teams currently have that title on them ??

OK, you want my point ?? Here it is !!

You know, it's absolutely amazing. The Wolves lost 3 of their players to the NHL this season. But, it seems those Atlanta Thrashers are STILL on a major losing streak ... even with those new Wolves additions. There was even 2 more Wolves called up to the Thrashers because of injuries. So, there's 5 Wolves players on the Thrashers team now ... (2 are still on the AHL Wolves for this season, and 3 are with the NHL Thrashers) ... and the Thrashers team is STILL not 'cutting the mustard' ... but yet, The Wolves are doing an incredible job without any of those players. Why ?? Is it a complete imbalance on the Thrashers team ?? OR Is it that some have no business being in the NHL yet ??

Bottom line is ... the NHL is a superior club over the AHL minors. But when you have an AHL team with a perfect starting record, and far more incredible stats presently than ANY of the NHL teams, you begin to wonder where the actual superiority belongs !!

And of course, the Wolves' record will NOT stay perfect until the end of the season. But, I think they're proving at the moment that pretty much it will be damn close.

 

[BoMac]

The Wolves have the BEST start in their AHL franchise history. How many other teams currently have that title on them ??

Bottom line is ... the NHL is a superior club over the AHL minors. But when you have an AHL team with a perfect starting record, and far more incredible stats presently than ANY of the NHL teams, you begin to wonder where the actual superiority belongs !!

Wow.

Again, it's apples and oranges. The Thrashers aren't 'cutting the mustard' this season against NHL competition, which is far, far, far superior than anything the Wolves will encounter this season. And this would be the case with or without those three Wolves players.

The Wolves are winning against AHL competition. You just simply cannot compare. I'm willing to bet that had the Wolves started the season in the NHL they wouldn't be 5-0. The Senators, Red Wings, Wild etc. would eat them alive.

One important point: The Thrashers are currently embroiled in a messy ownership dispute that does not allow them to sign players to long-term contracts. Also, they mortgaged a huge chuck of their future last season for Keith Tkachuk and al, basically rent-a-players. Those are only two of a number of reasons as to why the Thrashers are off to a slow start.

The Hamilton Bulldogs, the Canadiens affiliate, won the Calder Cup last season. No matter how many good young players they have on their team—and there's a few—I would never, ever compare them to a big-league club.

That's just silly.

 

[UberBeaver]

The Northwest Division looks like it might the be a real good race this year. Wish I got more of those games....

 

[MsMofoGone]

Originally posted by BonoManiac
The Wolves are winning against AHL competition. You just simply cannot compare.

You wanna bet ?? There are several players who played against The Wolves last season in the AHL, and this season, they are playing in the NHL because they tried-out in training camp and they made someone's team. (That was my point with some of the Wolves making the NHL Thrashers this season) So, how can that NOT be compared ?? (AHL players turn into NHL players after 3 months and there's a difference ?? ... What difference ?? )

Just look at Darren Haydar ... he's a Wolves player and he's currently been called onto the Thrashers team, because of an injury. He's playing in the NHL and has scored goals for the Thrashers and he's an AHL player. So, according to your 'don't compare' scenario ... that should NOT be possible for an AHL player to accomplish in the NHL !! Now, who is being silly ??

Originally posted by BonoManiac
I'm willing to bet that had the Wolves started the season in the NHL they wouldn't be 5-0. The Senators, Red Wings, Wild etc. would eat them alive.

Truth is, that's opinion ... not fact. It's too bad The Wolves are not in the NHL, I would have really liked to witness that, to see whose opinion is the correct one.

Originally posted by BonoManiac
One important point: The Thrashers are currently embroiled in a messy ownership dispute that does not allow them to sign players to long-term contracts. Also, they mortgaged a huge chuck of their future last season for Keith Tkachuk and al, basically rent-a-players. Those are only two of a number of reasons as to why the Thrashers are off to a slow start.

Actually, some think the Thrashers problems arose because of former coach, Bob Hartley. Supposedly, they have taken care of that issue. Now, they have the GM Don Waddell acting as coach. (Note that I said 'acting' ... he's no help to the team, either)

Originally posted by BonoManiac
The Hamilton Bulldogs, the Canadiens affiliate, won the Calder Cup last season.

Yeah, the Wolves DID experience difficulties against Hamilton last season, and therefore, didn't advance to the championship finals. It will be very interesting to see what happens THIS season when these 2 teams play each other.

BTW ... The record is now 6-0 for The Wolves
They pulverized the San Antonio Rampage, which finished their 2 game road trip in Chicago !!

 

[Thora]

It was nice to see the Canucks win tonight. They're definitely experiencing the early season slump they did last season, so hopefully that will change soon.

The game against Washington was great to watch. Ovechkin is a phenomenal player, but I'm glad Vancouver was able to win.

 

[BoMac]

You wanna bet ?? There are several players who played against The Wolves last season in the AHL, and this season, they are playing in the NHL because they tried-out in training camp and they made someone's team. (That was my point with some of the Wolves making the NHL Thrashers this season) So, how can that NOT be compared ?? (AHL players turn into NHL players after 3 months and there's a difference ?? ... What difference ?? )

You've taken several of my points out of context and twisted them around.

So, first, did I ever say that AHL players are incapable of playing, and playing well, in the NHL? No. My point is that you simply cannot compare the Wolves' now 6-0 record because they play in the AHL and by any objective standards the AHL does not have the best players in the world, the NHL does.

Anyway you slice it it's a developmental league, a feeder system for the NHL. By it's very nature the AHL has some excellent players who are preparing to make the jump to the NHL. But they also have young prospects who will never make it to the NHL and career minor leaguers who weren't able to crack an NHL line-up.

The same hold true for, say, minor league baseball versus the major leagues.

Just look at Darren Haydar ... he's a Wolves player and he's currently been called onto the Thrashers team, because of an injury. He's playing in the NHL and has scored goals for the Thrashers and he's an AHL player. So, according to your 'don't compare' scenario ... that should NOT be possible for an AHL player to accomplish in the NHL !! Now, who is being silly ??

Again, you're taking my point out of context. I wasn't comparing AHL players on an individual basis. There are many, many good ones, but the best TEAMS are in the NHL.

But when you say things such as this : "But when you have an AHL team with a perfect starting record, and far more incredible stats presently than ANY of the NHL teams, you begin to wonder where the actual superiority belongs !!"

I don't think you're looking at things objectively. The Wolves have a perfect record in the AHL. They have "far more incredible stats" in the AHL. They're not facing AS A WHOLE the best competition possible because the best teams (not just best individual players, but best TEAMS) are in the NHL.

Actually, some think the Thrashers problems arose because of former coach, Bob Hartley. Supposedly, they have taken care of that issue. Now, they have the GM Don Waddell acting as coach. (Note that I said 'acting' ... he's no help to the team, either)

See my previous post of the reasons I specified being "two of a number of reasons" Yes, Hartley was a major factor i their slow start. And I alluded to Wadell being of no help to the team when I said that he traded a huge chunck of their future at the trading deadline. But the fact that they're not able to sign anyone to a long-term contract did not allow them to be players in the free-agent market and off-set some of the damage done by trading for Tkachuk and compnay.

Yeah, the Wolves DID experience difficulties against Hamilton last season, and therefore, didn't advance to the championship finals. It will be very interesting to see what happens THIS season when these 2 teams play each other.

This was my previous post in full and nowhere did I say mention the Wolves.

The Hamilton Bulldogs, the Canadiens affiliate, won the Calder Cup last season. No matter how many good young players they have on their team—and there's a few—I would never, ever compare them to a big-league club.

My point was that the Bulldogs, the affiliate of my favourite team, the Montreal Canadiens, have several good young players—Jaroslav Halak, Ryan O'Byrne, Serge Kostitsyn, to name a few—and they won the Calder Cup last year. Does this mean they would have won the Stanley Cup using your logic? I don't think they would be able to beat the Ducks, Senators, Red Wings etc.

Maybe the Leafs, but that goes without saying.

 

[LarryMullen's POPAngel]

I was all set to come in here with an answer to the ridiculous statements made by msmofo, but I see BonoManiac has already expressed everything I was going to say much more eloquently.

 

[Canadiens1131]

The 2007-08 NHL Hockey thread

 

[RavenBlue]

When is Toronto going to trade Sundin?

 

[MsMofoGone]

Originally posted by BonoManiac
So, first, did I ever say that AHL players are incapable of playing, and playing well, in the NHL? No.

Oh really ?? See your former post below.

Originally posted by BonoManiac
I'm willing to bet that had the Wolves started the season in the NHL they wouldn't be 5-0. The Senators, Red Wings, Wild etc. would eat them alive.

The Wolves ARE AHL players (every single one of them on their team). And something about "eating them alive" makes me think you feel they're incapable of playing well in the NHL (or against NHL teams)

Originally posted by BonoManiac
and by any objective standards the AHL does not have the best players in the world, the NHL does.

And what happens when those BEST players are NOT renewed as NHL players ?? They simply cannot become BEST players for the AHL ??

Originally posted by BonoManiac
Anyway you slice it it's a developmental league, a feeder system for the NHL. By it's very nature the AHL has some excellent players who are preparing to make the jump to the NHL. But they also have young prospects who will never make it to the NHL and career minor leaguers who weren't able to crack an NHL line-up.

And by that same token ... there's players who are in the NHL one minute, and sent back down to the minors, the next. Some also are not tendered a contract for the next season, and wind up trying to find support with another team.

Originally posted by BonoManiac
Again, you're taking my point out of context. I wasn't comparing AHL players on an individual basis. There are many, many good ones, but the best TEAMS are in the NHL.

So, what happens when AHL players are 'called up' and play within an NHL team ... is that when those players are considered making them the BEST, simply because they're playing as PART of an NHL TEAM ?? ( You yourself said the BEST TEAMS are in the NHL.) What if they remained in the AHL and weren't on an NHL TEAM ... they are supposedly nothing ?? Please. The AHL has teams that are considered the BEST, just like the NHL does. Now, who's taking things out of context ??

Originally posted by BonoManiac
But when you say things such as this : "But when you have an AHL team with a perfect starting record, and far more incredible stats presently than ANY of the NHL teams, you begin to wonder where the actual superiority belongs !!"
I don't think you're looking at things objectively. The Wolves have a perfect record in the AHL. They have "far more incredible stats" in the AHL. They're not facing AS A WHOLE the best competition possible because the best teams (not just best individual players, but best TEAMS) are in the NHL.

And what exactly makes up those best teams ?? The answer is: best individual players !!
So, what are you trying to identify with by saying ...

Originally posted by BonoManiac
(not just best individual players, but best TEAMS)

Originally posted by BonoManiac
My point was that the Bulldogs, the affiliate of my favourite team, the Montreal Canadiens, have several good young players—Jaroslav Halak, Ryan O'Byrne, Serge Kostitsyn, to name a few—and they won the Calder Cup last year. Does this mean they would have won the Stanley Cup using your logic? I don't think they would be able to beat the Ducks, Senators, Red Wings etc.

Maybe the Leafs, but that goes without saying.

Again, it's all speculation. You can never predict what would happen unless they would indeed play those teams you mentioned. So, until there's an All-Star Game where minor leagues CAN play against the big clubs, (AHL teams VS. NHL teams) I doubt we will ever learn the TRUE answer to that scenario.

 

[MsMofoGone]

Originally posted by LarryMullen's_POPAngel
I was all set to come in here with an answer to the ridiculous statements made by msmofo,

Just because you DON'T AGREE with my statements, does NOT mean they're ridiculous.

 

[Zoomerang96]

msmofogone, you can't be serious.

you don't actually think that the wolves would be good in the nhl, do you?

THEY'RE MADE UP OF PLAYERS WHO AREN'T GOOD ENOUGH TO PLAY IN THE NHL.

that's great you support your ahl club, but come on. you can ask the players and the staff of the wolves, and even they'd disagree with you.

 

[CTU2fan]

I bet I've seen easily over 100 games in the NHL and in the A. I've seen some lousy, lousy NHL teams (I had Whalers season tix), and I think a good AHL team could beat a bad NHL club. It would be an upset...not a huge one, but an upset. If they played 10 times I could see the good AHL club winning 2 or 3, especially if the strength of the AHL club was its goaltender.

The biggest difference between the leagues, for me, is that in the A a player can have a weakness & still be dominant. In the AHL a small faster guy like a Marc Savard, or a Danny Briere, can be absolutely dominant. They were, I saw it. Those guys had enough quickness and agility to beat the big guys in the AHL, because in the AHL a big guy rarely has decent wheels (if he was big & fast he'd be up already). The principle holds on defense too. A guy like Brent Thompson could be a physical force in the AHL, but in the NHL he was a 6th/7th defenseman at best, because NHLers were either big enough or fast enough to beat him.

The AHL is a nice league. It was a better league before the AHL/IHL merger IMO, because it had mostly good young players while the IHL tended to have more older veterans who couldn't quite cut it in the NHL, guys who'd had their shot already. But if you see both leagues live you can clearly see the difference in quality.

 

[BoMac]

MsMofo, I respectfully disagree with your sentiment and it's obvious that neither of us will ever convince each other.

But let me just say this: I have seen AHL games before and can attest to the quality that the league has. However, not even you can deny that the best players in the world are in the NHL.

I'm a journalist. Recently I was in a scrum around Habs rookie Kyle Chipchura who spent a year in the AHL last season. Someone asked him what the biggest difference between the AHL and NHL is. His answer? The speed; everything happens faster in the NHL because the players are a level better. As a collective unit the AHL is a level lower than the NHL. I mean, again, the AHL is the NHL's feeder and developmental league. It's not a direct competitor with the NHL like the old WHA. In that case arguments could me made.

There are many NHL players in the AHL that deserve to be in the NHL. That being said, you cannot say that the Wolves have better stats than any team in the NHL because they got their stats in the AHL. The AHL is not the NHL. If it was, all the best players would be flocking to play there. Trust me, even you can agree with this: Facing a Martin Brodeur is a much more daunting task than your average AHL goalie. (Again, this is not to say that there are no NHL goalies in the AHL. Hamilton has Halak who played exceptionally well in the NHL last season.)

Anyway, this debate has gone on long enough. You have your opinions and I have mine (and apparently I'm not alone).

 

[ladywithspinninghead]

When is Toronto going to trade Sundin?

Why would they? To trade him while he's hot so they can get some young blood?

The Leafs will have no chance at making the playoffs if they trade Sundin - it's a bit early in the season to be making drastic changes like this imo. The season's not a write-off just yet, esp. after their last couple games.

 

[LarryMullen's POPAngel]

My Wings winning 5 in a row

Ok, I fluctuate with my interest. Give me a break.

 

[ladywithspinninghead]

The season's not a write-off just yet, esp. after their last couple games.

I think I jinxed them

 

[BoMac]

^You think? Forget trading Sundin, they need goaltending and soon!

 

[MsMofoGone]

Originally posted by Zoomerang96
you don't actually think that the wolves would be good in the nhl, do you?

Your assumption is far from what I was trying to get across here.
Actually, I can't say what would happen if the whole entire Wolves team was in the NHL. But, what I did say was this ... because,
The Wolves had a PERFECT starting record (6-0) that was BETTER than ANY of the NHL teams out there with their starting records ...
I thought The Wolves were FAR MORE 'superior' because of that PERFECT record.

Originally posted by Zoomerang96
THEY'RE MADE UP OF PLAYERS WHO AREN'T GOOD ENOUGH TO PLAY IN THE NHL.

Now, that's really funny you said that.

So, tell me exactly where Brett Sterling, Bryan Little, Mark Popovic, Darren Haydar and Ondrej Pavelec are now ??

Originally posted by Zoomerang96
that's great you support your ahl club, but come on. you can ask the players and the staff of the wolves, and even they'd disagree with you.

They might disagree with ONLY a handful of their remaining players ... BUT, NOT the whole team.

There's 7 players on the Wolves right now ...

Jason Krog
Jordan La Vallee
Steve Martins
Alex Giroux
Kevin Doell
Nathan Oystrick
Fred Brathwaite

and if their parent club (The Thrashers) needed them on their team, they would be there ... in a snap of the fingers.

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

^You think? Forget trading Sundin, they need goaltending and soon!

The goaltending isn't what’s frightening me, it's the defense or lack thereof...

It's the same old problem: consistency. One night they play like the cup is on the line the next night they wander around the ice like their dog just died...

It's extremely frustrating because you never know which Leaf team is showing up on any given night.

 

[ladywithspinninghead]

The goaltending isn't what’s frightening me, it's the defense or lack thereof...

It's the same old problem: consistency. One night they play like the cup is on the line the next night they wander around the ice like their dog just died...

It's extremely frustrating because you never know which Leaf team is showing up on any given night.

And they just can't seem to win at home this year either! The opposing team is supposed to be intimidated by the homecrowd, not the hometeam!!

 

[ladywithspinninghead]

I just read this somewhere:

Why won't Hamilton get an NHL team?

Because then Toronto would want one too.

 

[Zoomerang96]

Your assumption is far from what I was trying to get across here.
Actually, I can't say what would happen if the whole entire Wolves team was in the NHL. But, what I did say was this ... because,
The Wolves had a PERFECT starting record (6-0) that was BETTER than ANY of the NHL teams out there with their starting records ...
I thought The Wolves were FAR MORE 'superior' because of that PERFECT record.



Now, that's really funny you said that.

So, tell me exactly where Brett Sterling, Bryan Little, Mark Popovic, Darren Haydar and Ondrej Pavelec are now ??



They might disagree with ONLY a handful of their remaining players ... BUT, NOT the whole team.

There's 7 players on the Wolves right now ...

Jason Krog
Jordan La Vallee
Steve Martins
Alex Giroux
Kevin Doell
Nathan Oystrick
Fred Brathwaite

and if their parent club (The Thrashers) needed them on their team, they would be there ... in a snap of the fingers.

fred brathwaite hasn't played in the nhl in years, and spent time in russia.

jason krog and steve martins are marginal players at BEST, and would at most serve as a fourth line alternative until the parent club finds a better replacement.

these are career minor leaguers you're talking about.

seriously, i can't believe i'm even having this conversation.

that's like saying crystal palace could challenge for a spot in the champions league or eufa cup. it's absurd. i really don't want to insult you personally, but you're really... really out of touch with reality in this case. i'm sorry.

you're truly comparing apples to oranges here.

once again though, you deserve props for cheering so fervently for an ahl team.. i think that's great.

but it's a minor league team. there's no comparison. there is noone in the hockey world, i promise you, who thinks that the wolves would compete in the nhl. they might win an odd game, but they would be the worst team by far.

 

[MsMofoGone]

Originally posted by Zoomerang96
fred brathwaite hasn't played in the nhl in years, and spent time in russia.

Careful !! Careful ... who you feel isn't an issue.
There's talk going on at this very moment how our young prospect, Pavelec, might get sent back down to The Wolves team, so he can get 'ice time' instead of just sitting on the bench for Atlanta. If that happens, Brathwaite WILL be called up to Atlanta to back-up Hedberg and eventually Freddy will play.

Originally posted by Zoomerang96
jason krog and steve martins are marginal players at BEST, and would at most serve as a fourth line alternative until the parent club finds a better replacement.

I don't believe so ... Atlanta is on the verge of possibly taking more Wolves players IF they cannot get themselves on a consistent win record. That's all that's being discussed is how to dismantle the Wolves team for their (Atlanta's) benefit. Which again, is very bad for us here in Chicago.

Originally posted by Zoomerang96
but it's a minor league team. there's no comparison. there is noone in the hockey world, i promise you, who thinks that the wolves would compete in the nhl.

If I am so-ooo out of touch with reality ... then why are there SEVERAL Wolves playing on The Thrashers team ?? According to you and others here, there should NOT be a single, solitary Wolves player ... absolutely no one from their team to compete in the NHL. Although, there is ... and they're NOT there to 'look pretty' ... they're there because they were GOOD ENOUGH to make the team.

By you and everyone else here saying that The Wolves couldn't compete in the NHL ... I'm taking that as you're thinking the ENTIRE team. But, I am talking about SEVERAL of The Wolves players (NOT the WHOLE team) !!

Originally posted by Zoomerang96
they might win an odd game, but they would be the worst team by far.

Actually, that title went to Atlanta BEFORE they made a coaching change. Now, The Thrashers (with all those Wolves players on their team) seem to be somewhat better improving. Heck, they managed to beat The Blackhawks, and that was a major improvement right there.

 

[BoMac]

If I am so-ooo out of touch with reality ... then why are there SEVERAL Wolves playing on The Thrashers team ?? According to you and others here, there should NOT be a single, solitary Wolves player ... absolutely no one from their team to compete in the NHL. Although, there is ... and they're NOT there to 'look pretty' ... they're there because they were GOOD ENOUGH to make the team.

I don't think this is what we, well at least what I've been saying at all. To be sure there's very good, young players on the Wolves roster. But just because several players make the jump from the Wolves to the NHL doesn't mean that they're all NHL-calibre players.

You have to look at the whole picture; you have to look at the reasons behind their call-ups. Perhaps the parent NHL club has suffered a rash of injuries and needs players to replace them. Maybe a player gets suspended and someone is called up to replace that player.In the case of Atlanta, the front office is in a state of disarray and this has had an effect on player-personnel decisions.

So yes, there have been several Wolves players that have and will be called up, but this doesn't guarantee that they will stay there or even have an impact. I'm using the Wolves here as an example but the same goes for all minor league players. How many times has a player been called up, played a few games, scored a few goals only to never be heard of again? This happens all the time, which is where the term "career minor-leaguer" comes from.

If several Habs players get injured and management calls up some Bulldog players I won't say "A-ha! This proves that the Bulldogs have NHL players on their roster!" They have some, but not everyone that gets called up will have what it takes to make it in the NHL in the long run.

Actually, that title went to Atlanta BEFORE they made a coaching change. Now, The Thrashers (with all those Wolves players on their team) seem to be somewhat better improving. Heck, they managed to beat The Blackhawks, and that was a major improvement right there.

I'm sure the Wolves players had an impact, but if you look back on the history of all sports, not just hockey, more often than not a coaching change results in an improvement in play, at least in the short term. See the Blue Jackets last season after Ken Hitchcock took over. Time will tell in which direction the Thrashers are headed.

By you and everyone else here saying that The Wolves couldn't compete in the NHL ... I'm taking that as you're thinking the ENTIRE team. But, I am talking about SEVERAL of The Wolves players (NOT the WHOLE team) !!

I think we all got this idea from statements, such as the one below, that you have made recently:

The Wolves had a PERFECT starting record (6-0) that was BETTER than ANY of the NHL teams out there with their starting records ...
I thought The Wolves were FAR MORE 'superior' because of that PERFECT record.

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like you're saying that since the Wolves have a 6-0 record in the AHL that they're SUPERIOR to NHL teams such as Ottawa and Detroit that are 9-1 and 9-2, respectively.

Had the Wolves gotten that starting record in the NHL then you would have had a point. But the Wolves play against AHL competition, which AS A WHOLE is INFERIOR to the NHL. Therefore, your argument is null and void.

Let's say hypothetically, the South Carolina Stingrays of the East Coast Hockey League had started out 8-0 with no shoot-out or overtime losses(they're presently 4-1-1-0). Using your logic we could say that the Stingrays are "Far More Superior" to use your phrase, than the Wolves, Toronto Marlies or Philadelphia Phantoms. After all, they do have a better starting record than the Wolves, Marlies or Phantoms who all have at least a loss, overtime loss or shootout loss.

Yes, their stats and record may be better than the Wolves but the Stingrays play in the ECHL which is a level down in terms of hockey quality from the AHL. This is what I've been saying. You cannot say the Wolves are superior solely based on their record because they play in the AHL, which is a good quality league, but not the NHL, which by all objective standards is the best hockey league in the world.

 

[DaveC]

I really don't know who to root for anymore. I've lost all interest in the Leafs, who were my team when I was little, but I've got no attachment to them anymore since I stopped watching hockey altogether in the two or three years before the lockout, and now I've grown to dislike them. Not as much as I dislike the Senators and Canadiens, but I don't feel any compulsion to actively cheer for Toronto to do well. The only two Canadian teams I still could say I somewhat like are Calgary and Vancouver.

I find myself rooting against teams in almost every single game I watch rather than cheering for a team. It's a much better feeling when the team you're cheering for wins than when the team you're cheering for doesn't lose, if that makes sense.

When it comes to hockey, I wouldn't root for an American team unless I actually lived there. Any other sport, fine. But hockey = Canada. Period.

It feels almost like I'm picking a team from scratch. If someone held a gun to my head and told me to choose, I guess I'd go with Vancouver (I lived with 3 Calgarians last year, and they were pretty obnoxious when it came to the Flames). But I know absolutely nothing about them. As it stands though, I feel like I can't get into hockey as much as I'd like to without a definite team to cheer for.

This is a very weird situation to be in.

 

[LarryMullen's POPAngel]

It's sad to see so many, including myself, become so apathetic regarding hockey.

I think back to the heyday in Detroit, in the early to mid-90's and really wish it would come back, but too much has happened.

I still consider myself a Wings fan, but the excitement I once felt for the game isn't nearly on par to what it used to be.

 

[MsMofoGone]

Originally posted by BonoManiac
I don't think this is what we, well at least what I've been saying at all. To be sure there's very good, young players on the Wolves roster. But just because several players make the jump from the Wolves to the NHL doesn't mean that they're all NHL-calibre players.

You have to look at the whole picture; you have to look at the reasons behind their call-ups. Perhaps the parent NHL club has suffered a rash of injuries and needs players to replace them. Maybe a player gets suspended and someone is called up to replace that player.In the case of Atlanta, the front office is in a state of disarray and this has had an effect on player-personnel decisions.

So yes, there have been several Wolves players that have and will be called up, but this doesn't guarantee that they will stay there or even have an impact. I'm using the Wolves here as an example but the same goes for all minor league players. How many times has a player been called up, played a few games, scored a few goals only to never be heard of again? This happens all the time, which is where the term "career minor-leaguer" comes from.

If several Habs players get injured and management calls up some Bulldog players I won't say "A-ha! This proves that the Bulldogs have NHL players on their roster!" They have some, but not everyone that gets called up will have what it takes to make it in the NHL in the long run.

Just so you know ... there are SEVERAL Wolves players who have made The Thrashers team. The REASON they are on the Thrashers roster is BECAUSE they proved themselves in camp and were chosen as part of their team.

So, are you saying these players who have made the team for this particular reason, are NOT considered NHL-calibre players ??

Then what would you call them ??

There are only 2 Wolves players who are on the Thrashers roster because of injuries. Darren Haydar was called up because of Steve Rucchin's injury ... and Ondrej Pavelec was called to help back-up Johan Hedberg because of Kari Lehtonen's injury.
(Lehtonen is the one who is now affectionately called "The Glass Groin")

Although, it seems Pavelec's days of 'sitting on the bench and doing nothing' are numbered. He will get sent back down to the Wolves. (the only Q is when ??)

Originally posted by BonoManiac
Time will tell in which direction the Thrashers are headed.

Hopefully, out of 15th place would be BEST NEWS EVER !!
Although, I don't support GM (and 'acting' coach) Waddell for his ridiculous antics. His job is on the line too, if The Thrashers don't continue to come back from behind.

Originally posted by BonoManiac
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like you're saying that since the Wolves have a 6-0 record in the AHL that they're SUPERIOR to NHL teams such as Ottawa and Detroit that are 9-1 and 9-2, respectively.

What I'm saying is ... What NHL team has won their first 6 games withOUT being defeated ?? That was how I compared The Wolves' record ... it was PERFECT, they were undefeated.

I didn't say 'Oh, The Wolves (meaning the team) DESERVE to play in the NHL (or play NHL teams) for that matter. You and everyone else assumed that scenario. My statement lies below ...

Originally posted by MsMofoGone
By you and everyone else here saying that The Wolves couldn't compete in the NHL ... I'm taking that as you're thinking the ENTIRE team. But, I am talking about SEVERAL of The Wolves players (NOT the WHOLE team) !!

Originally posted by BonoManiac
Had the Wolves gotten that starting record in the NHL then you would have had a point. But the Wolves play against AHL competition, which AS A WHOLE is INFERIOR to the NHL. Therefore, your argument is null and void.

OK ... then let's discuss how INFERIOR the Blackhawks NHL team is. They are not even in a competitive class with the Wolves AHL team, BECAUSE of their organization. What do the Hawks ever do for the fans ?? Afterall, WE support them !! I tell you, The Wolves have more class in their little minor leagued fingers than the Hawks ever will. They don't give a royal about ANY of their fans.
That's what I call pathetic !!

 

[BoMac]

I give up.

You never address my points directly.

Debate over.

 

[MsMofoGone]

Is that what you 'out-of-the-blue' think of saying when you don't have an answer ??


What did I NOT respond to ??


I believe I addressed your points ... and very clearly too.