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Old 10-29-2007, 12:31 PM   #46
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Originally posted by If you shout...
What about Thriller...? Yes, I'm serious (although I couldn't agree more with Brau's angry praise for the two albums upon which the thread was initially based).
Soulless R&B. Musically uninteresting. Catchy yet disposable pop.

Stevie Wonder >>>>>>>>> anything by Michael & Quincy.

Michael - music videos = we're not even talking about this album.
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Old 10-29-2007, 03:48 PM   #47
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Originally posted by gabrielvox
I'm sorry but I can't say that's an intro to Lewis that does him justice...boring song, excrutiating video with 'look at me I'm Soul Man" rammed down the viewers throat. Check out live performances instead, he's definitely talented (and plays a niiiice geetar like Edge's) but that video just sucks imo.
I have to disagree with you on this song... the video doesn't mean anything, I only posted that clip so Mr Brau could hear the man.
but, I will say that the live stuff is indeed better. however, best of luck trying to find a decent quality live clip for any of the Stoned songs.
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Old 10-30-2007, 09:18 AM   #48
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Originally posted by lazarus


Soulless R&B. Musically uninteresting. Catchy yet disposable pop.

No way man! I agree Stevie is awesome, but to call Thriller soulless or disposable??

You know how many girls I got to Lady In My Life and Human Nature? Man that was the shit back in the day!!!

PYT...Wanna Be Startin Somethin...Billie Jean...

that album is track for track flat out AWESOME.
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Old 10-30-2007, 12:06 PM   #49
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I'm with gabrielvox on this one.
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Old 10-30-2007, 07:48 PM   #50
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It's a bunch of hit singles. You can dance to them. But what makes it superior to anything by Justin Timberlake? JT has a much better (and more natural-sounding) voice, and Timbaland is arguably as good a producer as Quincy Jones.

I still maintain these songs are pretty vapid. Compare them to Stevie Wonder's 70's work, or Marvin Gaye's. They absolutely PALE (no pun about MJ's skin tone intended) in comparison. Stevie & Marvin could write a great love song, then social commentary (some if it much angrier than you would thing), and I'll add that Sir Duke and Isn't She Lovely are as catchy as anything on Thriller. The difference is that Stevie's stuff doesn't sound as horribly dated as Thriller's 80's sound does. Now you can say that Prince's early work sounds dated too, but the difference is that his stuff was also revolutionary (no pun intended here either) at the time, and in context still impresses. Plus Prince, like Stevie, actually played an instrument and was more than a guy with good music videos and some cool dance moves. As a writer he was as eclectic as Stevie and Marvin. I just don't see the major talent in MJ. He had more soul as a singer when he was a kid, and to me the songs aren't remarkable from a composition or performance standpoint--therefore, it's disposable pop. That people still enjoy it is likely for nostalgic reasons, same reason they still like other dated crap from the 80's.
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Old 10-30-2007, 07:58 PM   #51
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Originally posted by lazarus
Plus Prince, like Stevie, actually played an instrument and was more than a guy with good music videos and some cool dance moves.
Eh, at the same time, though, the guy knew how to entertain and had a pretty decent voice. I mean, I'm not a big Michael Jackson fan, either, but the few songs I've heard off of Thriller, I dunno, I'd say that there's just as much thought being put into them as there is in any of the other artists mentioned. Playing an instrument certainly helps in the music world, definitely, but you can not play one and still be a revered artist, too.

That's just my opinion, anyway *Shrugs*. You're entitled to yours .

As for the other artists mentioned here, I've certainly heard songs from a lot of them, just need to get to work on getting some of these albums. But you can't argue with the soul greats (and I agree, I'd personally prefer to listen to '60s/'70s R&B over a lot of what's out today, but there is some good newer stuff, too). I have heard What's Going On?, though, and that's indeed some good stuff . I can get behind anyone who says that should be one of the classics from this genre.

Angela
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Old 10-30-2007, 08:02 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by lazarus
He had more soul as a singer when he was a kid, and to me the songs aren't remarkable from a composition or performance standpoint--therefore, it's disposable pop. That people still enjoy it is likely for nostalgic reasons, same reason they still like other dated crap from the 80's.
I never have given this much (or any) thought, but I guess you're right
the only true quality of Jacko's 80s output does seem to be the quality of nostalgia more than anything else
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Old 10-30-2007, 08:18 PM   #53
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I take it Brau and others in here who love this stuff know of the outstanding Soul Sides blog (www.soul-sides.com)? If not, check it out. It is one of the single best music sites out there. Especially their new and outstanding 'box set' idea. Hope to see many more of them.

I regard Thriller as pretty much a near perfect pop album, and think it deserves all it's kudos for that alone, but not much else otherwise. I think JT will no doubt do similar soon as well. On his first album there's a massive drop off in quality between those 4 or so released singles and the rest, Futuresex reaches a lot further, and leans less on the past. I think he'll get there.

There's definitely two different lines there. MJ isn't on the Marvin Gaye line, but JT is definitely on MJ's. I just don't really know where the Marvin Gaye line has ended up today. As far as the fire and politics goes, I guess it's all in conscious hip-hop now, and all R&B/soul followed some variant of the MJ/pop end of Stevie line off to god knows where. Mostly affairs of the heart and groin, expressed by hitting as many notes as you can per word. I really hate Nu-Soul or whatever you call it.
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Old 10-30-2007, 08:30 PM   #54
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Originally posted by lazarus
But what makes it superior to anything by Justin Timberlake? JT has a much better (and more natural-sounding) voice, and Timbaland is arguably as good a producer as Quincy Jones.
Who said it was superior to JT? JT and Timbaland have done an outstanding job at what they do, but I don't know that they've done anything different than Michael Jackson and Quincy Jones: produced an album full of top-notch pop songs.

Plus, say what you will about Jackson's voice, but I don't know that JT's voice is any better or natural-sounding. I guess that's arguable, although it's clear that JT doesn't rely on those annoying vocal twitches or grunts.

I won't bother arguing the part about the nostalgia for 80s crap, or however you phrased it. That's your opinion, and it's different from mine.
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Old 10-30-2007, 09:38 PM   #55
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I agree that there is such a thing as opinion, and then there is what I'd call ridiculousness.

I'm not attacking you Laz, I have great respect for your opinions and your taste in music. However in some records cases, opinion has to give way to fact.

Fact is, Thriller is a brilliant album. I don't understand the comparision between Stevie and Michael. Michael was my music, Stevie was mine by inheritance from my mother. Even moreso with Marvin. It's not a fair comparison. As for Prince, he's on another strata all together.

I would equate the statement 'Thriller is dated soulless pop crap' with the statement 'The Joshua Tree sucks'.

Honestly, I would.

You can't say that the Joshua Tree sucks. Noone in their right mind would lend any credence to that position. Thriller is entirely the same. It's an album, thru and thru, and it listens to and flows like an album, and then each song stands on it's own as a single too. Much like the Joshua Tree.
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Old 11-03-2007, 12:40 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by Earnie Shavers
I take it Brau and others in here who love this stuff know of the outstanding Soul Sides blog (www.soul-sides.com)? If not, check it out. It is one of the single best music sites out there. Especially their new and outstanding 'box set' idea. Hope to see many more of them.

I regard Thriller as pretty much a near perfect pop album, and think it deserves all it's kudos for that alone, but not much else otherwise. I think JT will no doubt do similar soon as well. On his first album there's a massive drop off in quality between those 4 or so released singles and the rest, Futuresex reaches a lot further, and leans less on the past. I think he'll get there.

There's definitely two different lines there. MJ isn't on the Marvin Gaye line, but JT is definitely on MJ's. I just don't really know where the Marvin Gaye line has ended up today. As far as the fire and politics goes, I guess it's all in conscious hip-hop now, and all R&B/soul followed some variant of the MJ/pop end of Stevie line off to god knows where. Mostly affairs of the heart and groin, expressed by hitting as many notes as you can per word. I really hate Nu-Soul or whatever you call it.
That's a nice site.

Check out this one. A treasure chest of classic R&B and Soul.

http://deaconblues1103soul.blogspot.com/

And this place, well, it is the shit.

http://toffeesoul.blogspot.com/
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Old 11-03-2007, 01:52 AM   #57
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Has anyone heard Sharon Jones & The Dap Kings? She/they have an album out, and from what I've heard, it's a great old throwback soul album. If I recall correctly, I read that some of the songs were written by songwriters who'd written for James Brown, or someone else like that ... or something like that.

I might just be crazy.
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Old 11-03-2007, 06:51 AM   #58
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No, I haven't heard of them. The name "Dap Kings" definitely sounds "vintage"

Cori thanks for the bit about Legend and Keys on youtube, i need to make some time for that but haven't yet...

*** *** ***


(quick aside- making videos is becoming a hobby of mine... just made one for a Curtis Mayfield tune)

anyone who's interested can check it out here:

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Old 11-03-2007, 06:20 PM   #59
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aye, the Dap Kings got some fame by working extensively with Amy WInehouse on her Back to black album

apparently the album is supposed to be pretty good
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Old 11-04-2007, 01:08 AM   #60
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Originally posted by LemonMacPhisto
I need to hear their covers of "A Change Is Gonna Come" now. That's one of my favorite songs of all-time.
The Otis rendition is stunning.

Completely stunning.

Lemme know if you want it.

I can send both.
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