That new iPod Nano commerical with the Feist song... - Page 5 - U2 Feedback

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Old 09-28-2007, 06:49 PM   #61
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Once again, no one has managed to explain to me how bigger, better known artists are able to make a living charging $15-$25 dollars a show, and why they choose to do so when they could easily get away with charging more. Or why a band would decide not to sign with a major label. Or why any band would decide NOT to sell their song for use in a commerical. Many bands have that are also trying to survive, but choose not to do it by those means.
Why do some people choose to become teachers, while others become lawyers? Or doctors, cops, stockbrokers, bricklayers, car salesmen, journalists, etc. And why do some of the people who become lawyers specialise in corporate law while others specialise in criminal defense, or prosecution, or tax law, etc?

Why?

Because everyone is different and everyone has different ideas about what they want to do and how they want to live their lives.
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Old 09-28-2007, 08:03 PM   #62
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Well, certainly we're not talking about a career choice, Indra.

If you want to make an analogy, talk about someone who decides to be a doctor and pursues a career in brain surgery, vs. someone specializing in plastic surgery.

Or an ambulance chasing personal injury lawyer or divorce lawyer vs. someone who studies constitutional law.

Everyone is different, not only in what they want to do and how they live their lives, but in how much of their integrity they are willing to cash in to make a quick buck.
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Old 09-28-2007, 08:55 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by lazarus
Once again, no one has managed to explain to me how bigger, better known artists are able to make a living charging $15-$25 dollars a show, and why they choose to do so when they could easily get away with charging more. Or why a band would decide not to sign with a major label. Or why any band would decide NOT to sell their song for use in a commerical. Many bands have that are also trying to survive, but choose not to do it by those means.
You seem to hold everything you've mentioned above as some kind of gold standard of integrity which means that every artist/band who deviates from it is selling out or compromising to some degree and must have their motivations questioned.

Which is fine if that's what you believe in, but there are plenty of people out there who don't see business as "teh enemy" of the art, and don't think that signing up with a major label is compromising or selling out to any degree. I don't think that the bands/artists who decide not to sign with a major label or not to sell their songs for a use in a commerical are somehow more virtuous or more worthy of admiration than the bands/artists who do. Which seems to be the position you're coming from.
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Old 09-28-2007, 09:29 PM   #64
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Originally posted by lazarus
Well, certainly we're not talking about a career choice, Indra.

If you want to make an analogy, talk about someone who decides to be a doctor and pursues a career in brain surgery, vs. someone specializing in plastic surgery.

Or an ambulance chasing personal injury lawyer or divorce lawyer vs. someone who studies constitutional law.
But your analogy doesn't make any sense, at least not in the terms you're presenting it. Commercially successful artists aren't inherently the bad guys. Artistic integrity and commercial success aren't mutually exclusive. If you think this, it seems awfully hypocritical that you're here posting on a U2 message board.

I'd agree with you if you were saying crappy pop artists are the musical equivalent of ambulance chasers, but you seem to be saying anybody who's making money and/or doing anything other than making albums and touring to advance their career is bad, and I just don't understand that.

And while you're hailing Spoon as such a good example of a band who hasn't sold out, what about the fact that they're going to be on Saturday Night Live tomorrow? Is that selling out? I like Spoon, and I'm not bothered by it. They're doing what they feel like they need to do to get enough exposure to advance their careers.
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Old 09-29-2007, 01:55 AM   #65
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It's market forces, biatch.
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Old 09-29-2007, 02:23 AM   #66
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I thought I had already pointed out the irony of discussing this on a u2 forum,as well as the fact that spoon had sold songs for commercials, etc. Apparently everyone else here is either ok with or resigned to he idea that everybody is for sale and that there's no shame in letting the music be used for letting the market dictate your profit margin, etc. There's no point in trying to find a middle ground in the middle of all this capitalist appeasemet. Enjoy.
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Old 09-29-2007, 03:27 AM   #67
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I just put myself in the artist's place. Sure, I'd like to spread my music lovingly, slathering it over anyone who has an open mind, and then we can all hold hands and go to Burning Man.

But I'd also want to make fucking money, man. What is this, the goddamn Care Bears?



Also, I think you're pushing an argument which basically involves personal choice in the end, and that is why no one really wants to try and have an intelligent debate with you. It's 10$ man, you don't want to pay it which I respect, so you don't go to see Feist. It's the same reason I didn't see her. Do I think she's some kind of shady, marketing-savy, non-fan-friendly, "sell out" artist? Not particularly. Do I think her management is some band of profit-margin chasing, merchandising, superteam of money-chasing boobs? OF COURSE THEY ARE THEY'RE FUCKING MANAGING A BAND; IT'S THEIR JOB, IDIOT!!!!
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Old 09-29-2007, 03:36 AM   #68
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well at least we can agree that she wasn't worth the extra $10, canadiens. I can live with that. (it's all about the small victories)
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Old 09-29-2007, 05:36 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by lazarus
If you want to make an analogy, talk about someone who decides to be a doctor and pursues a career in brain surgery, vs. someone specializing in plastic surgery.
Just to be pedantic, I think you're confusing plastic surgery with cosmetic surgery here. Plastic surgery can involve reconstruction surgery for burns or accident victims, women who have had mastectomy, etc.; it's not all about nose jobs and breast implants.
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Old 09-29-2007, 06:51 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by lazarus
Well, certainly we're not talking about a career choice, Indra.

If you want to make an analogy, talk about someone who decides to be a doctor and pursues a career in brain surgery, vs. someone specializing in plastic surgery.

Or an ambulance chasing personal injury lawyer or divorce lawyer vs. someone who studies constitutional law.

Everyone is different, not only in what they want to do and how they live their lives, but in how much of their integrity they are willing to cash in to make a quick buck.
So you really want to tell me that the plastic surgeon who just gave the badly burned child a semblance of a normal face lacks integrity? As Saracene pointed out, plastic surgery isn't all boob jobs.

And if you ever need a divorce, or care for someone who does, you will be very thankful for a good divorce lawyer. Divorce isn't inherently seedy, and neither are divorce lawyers. Some are of course, but so are some brain surgeons and constitutional lawyers.


Quote:
Originally posted by lazarus
I thought I had already pointed out the irony of discussing this on a u2 forum,as well as the fact that spoon had sold songs for commercials, etc. Apparently everyone else here is either ok with or resigned to he idea that everybody is for sale and that there's no shame in letting the music be used for letting the market dictate your profit margin, etc. There's no point in trying to find a middle ground in the middle of all this capitalist appeasemet. Enjoy.
You might get off your high horse pretty damned fast if your friend who's been in the music business for over 25 years and made at least a couple dozen albums (generally well received critically) told you one day he had $2.72. For a family of five. And no credit whatsoever.

Is much of his predicament his own doing? Certainly -- years on smack costs a lot. He's the first to admit that (he's been off it for about seven years now). Still, the other band members who never had the drug problems he did aren't rolling in cash either. He and the rest of the band members were also naive and their record companies' and managers' greedy and not particularly scrupulous (still a not uncommon situation for musicians), so they made a series of bad business decisions and had some bad luck which means the money you would think they would have made based on their career didn't happen. In fact they ended up owing money to their record label during their supposed glory days. 16+ years later they are still paying it back.

Yes there are things I would certainly not like to see/hear them do, and for the most part they haven't done these things. They do worry about and try to maintain their artistic integrity and for the most part have succeeded. They always have, which helped gain them a reputation as "difficult." They do reject offers they just can't stomach. And I appreciate that. But when I think of that $2.72 and know it wasn't just a one time deal, I wouldn't mind at all hearing 30 seconds of one of their songs used a dozen times each evening on a tv commercial. And I wouldn't mind paying $10 or so more for a concert ticket or a cd either.

So I can't condemn someone such as Feist who is making the most of her current popularity. The music business is both brutal and fickle, and most bands/musicians don't last very long. I don't think artists should have to starve to prove they are worthy.




** My friend's band has more integrity than Spoon since they've never sold a song for a commercial. Nah nah nah nah nah
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Old 09-29-2007, 11:50 AM   #71
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I am paying $30 to see Feist in December in a 1000 seat venue and I got no problem with that. It's my money and I can spend it as I please.

Regarding selling out, I don't really call a relatively unknown artist trying to promote their music in the mainstream via commercials or whatever a selllout. Now an artist who has a dozen or so top selling albums and a career spanning decades selling their songs like the Stones and Start Me Up just to add money to their coffers does irk me. The legendary song which has meaning for so many people gets distorted in the medium. The Who's songs used in the CSI shows are crap now. I used to love them but I all I see now when I hear them is the opening of CSI. That's a sellout.

But hey, I suppose you gotta eat.
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Old 09-29-2007, 01:26 PM   #72
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As a frustrated musician myself (and by frustrated I mean I never earned a dime or even dreamed to make one with music) I just don't understand the selfishness of not seeing musicianship as a job like any other in which you are GLAD to have as many clients as possible. Give them a break, they're just trying to put some bread on the freaking table.
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