Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
As what? The first U.S. team to fold due to the ongoing lockout?cujo said:
Stick a fork in 'em...
- Thread starter Headache in a Suitcase
- Start date
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OP
OP
if they don't get a deal done now... it's an absolute joke.
OP
OP
TSN is reporting that it's over... Bettman to announce cancelation of season at 1pm, and he's already sent a memo to all teams announcing the cancelation of the season.
buuuut... other reports are saying that there's only a 4.5 million dollar difference, and that the sides are close to a deal
buuuut... other reports are saying that there's only a 4.5 million dollar difference, and that the sides are close to a deal
ladywithspinninghead
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
A lot of fans sided with the League but I think that will change if Bettman proceeds with the cancelation when only a few million dollars U.S. separates them.My god, Bettman would be an idiot to cancel the season now, when the two sides are so close.
Philosophical differences have been surmounted, now it`s just down to the numbers.
Philosophical differences have been surmounted, now it`s just down to the numbers.
OP
OP
you could look at it that way...
or you could look at it this way... it's obvious that the owners aren't budging, and aren't ever gonna budge... so if you're the players, why not give in? if you don't give in now, you're gonna have to give in eventually.
the players have already given in on tons of issues... the owners have barely budged. it's time the players realized that the owners aren't gonna budge, so just make a deal and play the season.
or you could look at it this way... it's obvious that the owners aren't budging, and aren't ever gonna budge... so if you're the players, why not give in? if you don't give in now, you're gonna have to give in eventually.
the players have already given in on tons of issues... the owners have barely budged. it's time the players realized that the owners aren't gonna budge, so just make a deal and play the season.
OP
OP
Bettman's speaking now...
OP
OP
It's official... the season has been canceled.
shrmn8rpoptart
War Child
i hope he gets hit by a bus on his way home
OP
OP
i give bettman credit for sticking to his guns on this... the players should have realized this months ago.
the owners are 100% right on this issue... the players know it... but the higher ups in the NFLPA are all drinking the goodenow kool-aid.
when the 2005-2006 season begins, if a deal is not in place yet and replacement players are brought in... look for a mass breaking of rank amongst the NHLPA.
the owners are 100% right on this issue... the players know it... but the higher ups in the NFLPA are all drinking the goodenow kool-aid.
when the 2005-2006 season begins, if a deal is not in place yet and replacement players are brought in... look for a mass breaking of rank amongst the NHLPA.
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OP
OP
ladywithspinninghead
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
I do agree with you Headache that Bettman`s position is commendable but I would disagree that they haven`t budged at all; they just recently caved in on the linkage to revenue position and according to Bettman`s letter to Goodenow, they increased their offer by $75 million - it wasn`t unreasonable for the players to expect the league to be flexible with the remaining $6-7 million that was in dispute.
OP
OP
ladywithspinninghead said:
true... they budged on the numbers, but they never budged on their ideals. the players said at the start that they'd never ever agree to a cap, and then as the deadline neared, they did agree to a cap.
the way bettman's talking, there is deffinetly going to be a 2005-2006 season, and whoever shows up... plays. replacements, scabs... line breakers... there will be hockey next season. bettman's gonna go back to his hard line stance, he's gonna open up the buildings, and that's that. if you wanna play, break ranks. if you don't, we'll find someone else.
and maybe it's just me, but every time someone says "linkage" in this press conference, all i can think of is george costanza and his "shrinkage"
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shrmn8rpoptart
War Child
i forget which players said it, but some quotes in my local paper made it sound like the players were upset with the union. some things like "i just want to be able to play" were said.
a lot of players are playing otherwise for a lot less money than they would have made here. i think it is clear that most just want to be able to play hockey, and to make some money doing it.
i don't know what i'm going to do without the playoffs. throw myself headlong into the first place colorado eagles and the chl, maybe. but i don't have the money to go to their games, and they're only on tv once a month. i need more than that. march madness will be over, baseball will just be starting, and the nba sucks. after the u2 concert on april 20th, i'm not looking forward to my april, may, and early june.
i am also pissed that bettman has decided to put linkage back on the deal. in my mind anyway, that basically guarantees that this lockout is not going to end anytime soon, and suddenly next season is already in doubt....
a lot of players are playing otherwise for a lot less money than they would have made here. i think it is clear that most just want to be able to play hockey, and to make some money doing it.
i don't know what i'm going to do without the playoffs. throw myself headlong into the first place colorado eagles and the chl, maybe. but i don't have the money to go to their games, and they're only on tv once a month. i need more than that. march madness will be over, baseball will just be starting, and the nba sucks. after the u2 concert on april 20th, i'm not looking forward to my april, may, and early june.
i am also pissed that bettman has decided to put linkage back on the deal. in my mind anyway, that basically guarantees that this lockout is not going to end anytime soon, and suddenly next season is already in doubt....
ladywithspinninghead
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
Sure hope so because now it looks like the league is going to retract some of its recent offerings:
"The best deal that was on the table is now gone," said Bettman, adding the NHL will revert to its demand for linkage in future negotiations.
"The best deal that was on the table is now gone," said Bettman, adding the NHL will revert to its demand for linkage in future negotiations.
OP
OP
i've hit * and 1 on my touchtone phone, how come i can't ask any questions?
DaveC
Blue Crack Addict
it is a national day of mourning in Canada.
ladywithspinninghead
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
Yes, sad day indeed - I`m gutted.
As an aside - anyone know, as a player and an owner, on which side of the debate Mario falls? He`s been awfully quiet throughout this debacle.
As an aside - anyone know, as a player and an owner, on which side of the debate Mario falls? He`s been awfully quiet throughout this debacle.
OP
OP
this will tell ya where hockey stands these days...
the only sports story on cnn.com's main page is about lance armostrong... they don't even mention the hockey season being canceled until the bottom of the page.
the only sports story on cnn.com's main page is about lance armostrong... they don't even mention the hockey season being canceled until the bottom of the page.
speedracer
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2001
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- 7,604
Headache in a Suitcase said:
Either that, or they'll all play in Sweden. Yeah, that's the ticket.
The international leagues are good, but most of the players who would break ranks probably wouldn't like playing under international rules.
ladywithspinninghead
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
Headache in a Suitcase said:
Actually it was up on the right hand corner on CNN.com along with other "breaking news" items this afternoon. I checked, out of curiosity, too. But seeing how an Ashley Olsen story is up there this evening, I'm not going to pay too much attention to them.
But that's the U.S. - hockey has never been "huge" there. Here it's the no. 1 news item EVERYWHERE (even edging out, in many places, the same-sex marriage debate which was introduced into Parliament today)
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trevster2k
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2001
- Messages
- 4,330
Stunning events today for NHL fans.
I would have liked to see the players vote on a previous offer from the league to see what the players really think, not what Goodenow says they think.
I don't understand how the player's can put their faith in Goodenow again after spending the last 7 plus months ( I call it 7 because the last agreement ended when the Cup was awarded to the Lightning last year in my mind) vehemently and unequivocally stating no to a salary cap. Then at the eleventh hour, he changes his position on the key element. Now he states that the bargaining will start fresh under new circumstances so can we expect the same thing all over again.
This does not make me feel optimistic.
The issues really don't matter because at the end of the day, the players have to capitulate to the owners. Very few of the NHL owners if any, or any professional team owner, depends on the team as a main source of income. It is a toy for them to play with and show off. It is a status symbol for rich rich people. The players cannot afford to hold out indefinitely since every day they miss is hurting the professional game of hockey and many people are losing interest. The revenues they are fighting over right now may become a moot point as attendance and TV ratings drop sharply in the future leading to further drops in player salary. Of course,they must play hockey to earn their main source of income.
The true victims of this are the concession workers, parking attendants, bar owners and workers, hot dog vendors, souvenir vendors, the guys who make the hockey sticks, pucks, and countless others who earn a week to week living from the NHL. Of course, the fans are victims too.
The scary thing is that it took baseball ten years to recover from 1994 debacle and baseball was much more healthy than hockey and more popular. The NHL has a bleak future ahead of itself.
Worst case scenario, replacement players in 2006. NHL becomes a feeder league to European leagues because most of the players will bolt for the work. Best case , drop the puck this fall under new collective agreement.
Every time Bettman or Goodenow mention the fans, I find it offensive. They do not give a damn about the fans during this battle of millionaires and billionaires. This is about money, not hockey and not fans.
Peace out.
I would have liked to see the players vote on a previous offer from the league to see what the players really think, not what Goodenow says they think.
I don't understand how the player's can put their faith in Goodenow again after spending the last 7 plus months ( I call it 7 because the last agreement ended when the Cup was awarded to the Lightning last year in my mind) vehemently and unequivocally stating no to a salary cap. Then at the eleventh hour, he changes his position on the key element. Now he states that the bargaining will start fresh under new circumstances so can we expect the same thing all over again.
This does not make me feel optimistic.
The issues really don't matter because at the end of the day, the players have to capitulate to the owners. Very few of the NHL owners if any, or any professional team owner, depends on the team as a main source of income. It is a toy for them to play with and show off. It is a status symbol for rich rich people. The players cannot afford to hold out indefinitely since every day they miss is hurting the professional game of hockey and many people are losing interest. The revenues they are fighting over right now may become a moot point as attendance and TV ratings drop sharply in the future leading to further drops in player salary. Of course,they must play hockey to earn their main source of income.
The true victims of this are the concession workers, parking attendants, bar owners and workers, hot dog vendors, souvenir vendors, the guys who make the hockey sticks, pucks, and countless others who earn a week to week living from the NHL. Of course, the fans are victims too.
The scary thing is that it took baseball ten years to recover from 1994 debacle and baseball was much more healthy than hockey and more popular. The NHL has a bleak future ahead of itself.
Worst case scenario, replacement players in 2006. NHL becomes a feeder league to European leagues because most of the players will bolt for the work. Best case , drop the puck this fall under new collective agreement.
Every time Bettman or Goodenow mention the fans, I find it offensive. They do not give a damn about the fans during this battle of millionaires and billionaires. This is about money, not hockey and not fans.
Peace out.
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trevster2k said:
There are several bars and stores that are hurting tremendously (some have had to fold I believe) on 17th Avenue in Calgary. That is the main strip leading up to the Saddledome, and what most people now call The Red Mile. Or should I say, used to call...
ladywithspinninghead
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
Unbelievable!!! Reports on the news tonight are saying that a deal may *already* be in place and they may have agreed to a $45m cap in the end. Even if this is false, meeting up tomorrow is definitely a good start. And to answer my question above, I guess my Mario is now going to get involved:
Game on?
Friday, February 18, 2005 Updated at 11:01 PM EST
Canadian Press
The NHL season may be brought back to life after all.
Believe it or not, labour talks will resume Saturday in New York and this time Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux will be involved.
"Late Thursday night the NHL requested a meeting with NHLPA representatives in New York," the NHL Players' Association said in a statement Friday night. "Today the NHLPA accepted the invitation and a meeting has been scheduled for Saturday."
New Jersey Devils CEO and GM Lou Lamoriello was relieved to hear the news.
"I've said all along that the most important thing is coming to an agreement," Lamoriello said Friday night from his New Jersey office. "Even after the season was cancelled it was just so important to get together as soon as possible.
"And I commend both of them for agreeing to do it. And now, get it done."
The NHLPA strongly denied a Hockey News report Friday night that a deal was already in place in principle that includes a $45-million (U.S.) salary cap.
"The report is absolutely false," an NHLPA spokesman said late Friday night.
Sources confirmed Gretzky, the managing partner of the Phoenix Coyotes, and Lemieux, the Pittsburgh Penguins player/owner, would join the talks, as well the normal crew of negotiators, including commissioner Gary Bettman, NHL executive vice-president Bill Daly and NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow and senior director Ted Saskin.
"I can only hope that both sides realize they owe to the game to allow common sense to prevail," veteran agent Don Meehan of Newport Sports said Friday night from his Mississauga office.
At this point, nothing would surprise anyone given the ups and downs of this five-month lockout.
"If they're talking, that's great," Lightning star Brad Richards said Friday from Tampa. "It's been such a roller-coaster ride, I don't even know what to say. You just never know, anything is possible."
There have been rumblings of reviving talks ever since Bettman cancelled the season Wednesday with players, owners and GMs burning up the phone lines and wondering how it had come to this.
"I think both sides took a step back the next day and realized 'we were that close,"' Calgary Flames superstar Jarome Iginla said Friday night from Edmonton. "And I think both sides realized that for the big hit hockey would take, maybe we needed to take another crack at it."
Talks ended Tuesday night after the NHLPA rejected the league's final offer of a $42.5-million salary cap. The NHLPA's last offer featured a salary cap of $49 million, leaving the two sides $6.5 million apart in their salary cap offers.
"I'm not surprised they're meeting again because once the philosophical obstacles were eliminated it appeared that the majority of owners and players wanted an agreement," agent J.P. Barry of IMG said Friday night from Calgary. "I think you're witnessing the wills of the majority in action. Hopefully a fair compromise is still achievable at this stage."
Privately, some players, GMs and owners all agreed $45 million was the magic number to get a deal done. But neither side picked up the phone in the last 12 hours leading up to the cancellation.
"I was really upset with the way it ended," said Iginla. "It's hard to believe that after all the back and forth, linkage, no linkage, all that stuff, that only a few million kept both sides apart.
"And I understand that a few million is a lot of money but in the grand scheme of things, in a $2.1-billion business and getting everyone past their principals, I would love for this to get done."
Plans have been in place for teams to play a 28-game regular season starting March 1 and there's still time for that to happen if both sides can reach a deal this weekend.
But there's no guarantee of a deal getting done.
"To get (talks) started again and still not do it, that would be a travesty," Iginla said, adding with a laugh, "I'm a young man but this is taking its toll."
Game on?
Friday, February 18, 2005 Updated at 11:01 PM EST
Canadian Press
The NHL season may be brought back to life after all.
Believe it or not, labour talks will resume Saturday in New York and this time Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux will be involved.
"Late Thursday night the NHL requested a meeting with NHLPA representatives in New York," the NHL Players' Association said in a statement Friday night. "Today the NHLPA accepted the invitation and a meeting has been scheduled for Saturday."
New Jersey Devils CEO and GM Lou Lamoriello was relieved to hear the news.
"I've said all along that the most important thing is coming to an agreement," Lamoriello said Friday night from his New Jersey office. "Even after the season was cancelled it was just so important to get together as soon as possible.
"And I commend both of them for agreeing to do it. And now, get it done."
The NHLPA strongly denied a Hockey News report Friday night that a deal was already in place in principle that includes a $45-million (U.S.) salary cap.
"The report is absolutely false," an NHLPA spokesman said late Friday night.
Sources confirmed Gretzky, the managing partner of the Phoenix Coyotes, and Lemieux, the Pittsburgh Penguins player/owner, would join the talks, as well the normal crew of negotiators, including commissioner Gary Bettman, NHL executive vice-president Bill Daly and NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow and senior director Ted Saskin.
"I can only hope that both sides realize they owe to the game to allow common sense to prevail," veteran agent Don Meehan of Newport Sports said Friday night from his Mississauga office.
At this point, nothing would surprise anyone given the ups and downs of this five-month lockout.
"If they're talking, that's great," Lightning star Brad Richards said Friday from Tampa. "It's been such a roller-coaster ride, I don't even know what to say. You just never know, anything is possible."
There have been rumblings of reviving talks ever since Bettman cancelled the season Wednesday with players, owners and GMs burning up the phone lines and wondering how it had come to this.
"I think both sides took a step back the next day and realized 'we were that close,"' Calgary Flames superstar Jarome Iginla said Friday night from Edmonton. "And I think both sides realized that for the big hit hockey would take, maybe we needed to take another crack at it."
Talks ended Tuesday night after the NHLPA rejected the league's final offer of a $42.5-million salary cap. The NHLPA's last offer featured a salary cap of $49 million, leaving the two sides $6.5 million apart in their salary cap offers.
"I'm not surprised they're meeting again because once the philosophical obstacles were eliminated it appeared that the majority of owners and players wanted an agreement," agent J.P. Barry of IMG said Friday night from Calgary. "I think you're witnessing the wills of the majority in action. Hopefully a fair compromise is still achievable at this stage."
Privately, some players, GMs and owners all agreed $45 million was the magic number to get a deal done. But neither side picked up the phone in the last 12 hours leading up to the cancellation.
"I was really upset with the way it ended," said Iginla. "It's hard to believe that after all the back and forth, linkage, no linkage, all that stuff, that only a few million kept both sides apart.
"And I understand that a few million is a lot of money but in the grand scheme of things, in a $2.1-billion business and getting everyone past their principals, I would love for this to get done."
Plans have been in place for teams to play a 28-game regular season starting March 1 and there's still time for that to happen if both sides can reach a deal this weekend.
But there's no guarantee of a deal getting done.
"To get (talks) started again and still not do it, that would be a travesty," Iginla said, adding with a laugh, "I'm a young man but this is taking its toll."
ladywithspinninghead
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
I'm tired of hearing on the news and elsewhere that Americans don't care about hockey. So? I don't care if the Americans care about hockey. I don't like basketball or football so why should they like hockey? Does the NHL really need to be popular in the U.S. to survive? Methinks not (and neither does Don Cherry).
Can the NHL survive if they pull out of markets like Atlanta and Nashville and bring them back to their natural places like Winnipeg or Quebec city?
As an AP columnist wrote:
"Bettman was a dreamer and schemer, a former NBA marketing whiz who never understood that hockey, for all its history and thrills, didn't have the broad passionate U.S. fan base that could justify his vision of manifest destiny.
Hockey is not McDonald's or Starbucks. It didn't need to supersize itself and post franchises all over the map. "
Anyhow, this is just my opinion - not sure if it's viable or not as I don't pretend to know the workings behind the NHL financial machine.
On a lighter note, someone asked Chris Rock (er, no idea why!) about the cancellation of hockey and he replied:
"All of Harlem is in tears," Rock deadpanned. "I remember growing up playing pick-up hockey games. … My dad and I having sticks and pucks. … It was a magical time."
Can the NHL survive if they pull out of markets like Atlanta and Nashville and bring them back to their natural places like Winnipeg or Quebec city?
As an AP columnist wrote:
"Bettman was a dreamer and schemer, a former NBA marketing whiz who never understood that hockey, for all its history and thrills, didn't have the broad passionate U.S. fan base that could justify his vision of manifest destiny.
Hockey is not McDonald's or Starbucks. It didn't need to supersize itself and post franchises all over the map. "
Anyhow, this is just my opinion - not sure if it's viable or not as I don't pretend to know the workings behind the NHL financial machine.
On a lighter note, someone asked Chris Rock (er, no idea why!) about the cancellation of hockey and he replied:
"All of Harlem is in tears," Rock deadpanned. "I remember growing up playing pick-up hockey games. … My dad and I having sticks and pucks. … It was a magical time."
