Someone in the media finally gets it - Red Sox become who they hate
- Thread starter Chizip
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speedracer
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
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Selective misuse of statistics and facts...
Without adjusting for annual inflation of player salaries, this statistic is meaningless.
Derek Lowe, Tim Wakefield and Jason Varitek played the vast majority of their careers in the Red Sox organization. Ironically, Lowe and Varitek may be with other teams next year because they may have priced themselves out of the Sox' bidding range.
Pedro Martinez also spent most of his career with the Sox. The Sox got him from the Expos for Carl Pavano, one of their minor leaguers who himself may become a premier pitcher. Pedro too may be gone next year if the price is wrong.
David Ortiz was cut by the Minnesota Twins. Sure, he was cut as a cost-cutting measure, but the Sox have to be given credit for recognizing his talent when other teams didn't.
Mark Bellhorn is probably not the kind of "mercenary" Jacob Luft has in mind, given that he makes less than $500,000 a year. Ditto for Bronson Arroyo ($330,000).
Bill Mueller and Kevin Millar are a bit more expensive -- $2.1 mil and $3.3 mil respectively -- but pretty close to the average player salary. Basically, they're the perfect Moneyball players.
The most glaring "mercernaries" on the Sox are pitchers Curt Schilling (acquired for a couple minor-league scrubs) and Keith Foulke, and outfielders Johnny Damon and Manny Ramirez. A significant fraction of top pitchers on top teams are mercenaries, because there are so few premier pitchers to go around. I'd venture a guess that within the last 15 years, only the 1995 Braves, 2002 Angels and 2003 Marlins managed to win without leaning heavily on high-priced free agent pitchers. Plenty of top pitchers on the other playoff teams this year were free agent pickups, too -- Jason Isringhausen, Roger Clemens, Bartolo Colon, Mike Mussina and others.
And how many teams can say they *traded away* a homegrown superstar in order to make their team better?
Okay, so the Sox spent $127 million this year, second to the Yankees' $184 million. But Anaheim was at $100 million, and the Mets, Phillies, Dodgers, Cubs and Braves were all above $90 million. Nothing to sneeze at. Sure it sucks to be the Royals or the Devil Rays, but the Sox have to be given a lot of credit for spending wisely and getting the most out of their team.
Lots of people use statistics the way a drunk uses a lamppost -- for support, not for illumination.
Without adjusting for annual inflation of player salaries, this statistic is meaningless.
Derek Lowe, Tim Wakefield and Jason Varitek played the vast majority of their careers in the Red Sox organization. Ironically, Lowe and Varitek may be with other teams next year because they may have priced themselves out of the Sox' bidding range.
Pedro Martinez also spent most of his career with the Sox. The Sox got him from the Expos for Carl Pavano, one of their minor leaguers who himself may become a premier pitcher. Pedro too may be gone next year if the price is wrong.
David Ortiz was cut by the Minnesota Twins. Sure, he was cut as a cost-cutting measure, but the Sox have to be given credit for recognizing his talent when other teams didn't.
Mark Bellhorn is probably not the kind of "mercenary" Jacob Luft has in mind, given that he makes less than $500,000 a year. Ditto for Bronson Arroyo ($330,000).
Bill Mueller and Kevin Millar are a bit more expensive -- $2.1 mil and $3.3 mil respectively -- but pretty close to the average player salary. Basically, they're the perfect Moneyball players.
The most glaring "mercernaries" on the Sox are pitchers Curt Schilling (acquired for a couple minor-league scrubs) and Keith Foulke, and outfielders Johnny Damon and Manny Ramirez. A significant fraction of top pitchers on top teams are mercenaries, because there are so few premier pitchers to go around. I'd venture a guess that within the last 15 years, only the 1995 Braves, 2002 Angels and 2003 Marlins managed to win without leaning heavily on high-priced free agent pitchers. Plenty of top pitchers on the other playoff teams this year were free agent pickups, too -- Jason Isringhausen, Roger Clemens, Bartolo Colon, Mike Mussina and others.
And how many teams can say they *traded away* a homegrown superstar in order to make their team better?
Okay, so the Sox spent $127 million this year, second to the Yankees' $184 million. But Anaheim was at $100 million, and the Mets, Phillies, Dodgers, Cubs and Braves were all above $90 million. Nothing to sneeze at. Sure it sucks to be the Royals or the Devil Rays, but the Sox have to be given a lot of credit for spending wisely and getting the most out of their team.
Lots of people use statistics the way a drunk uses a lamppost -- for support, not for illumination.
Clark W. Griswold Jr
War Child
sour grapes.
The Sox still spent $65million less than steinbrenner, yet the hack you quoted here fails to do the math- A team that spent 1/3 less than the Yanks turned around a 3-0 deficit and knocked them out of the playoffs
And let us not shed any tears for the Cardinals here... They weren't exactly in the poorhouse, spending $83M this year (9th highest in 2004), and will likely spend a great deal more for 2006 when they open their new downtown ballpark.
They stand to join the league's high cabal soon, so don't knock it till ya try it, my friend...
If anything this should help the other owners wise up and change how revenue is shared. Funny thing, they probably were too busy counting their own money to watch the WS...
The Sox still spent $65million less than steinbrenner, yet the hack you quoted here fails to do the math- A team that spent 1/3 less than the Yanks turned around a 3-0 deficit and knocked them out of the playoffs
And let us not shed any tears for the Cardinals here... They weren't exactly in the poorhouse, spending $83M this year (9th highest in 2004), and will likely spend a great deal more for 2006 when they open their new downtown ballpark.
They stand to join the league's high cabal soon, so don't knock it till ya try it, my friend...
If anything this should help the other owners wise up and change how revenue is shared. Funny thing, they probably were too busy counting their own money to watch the WS...
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funny thing, red sox fans talking about sour grapes when they are the king of sour grapes with their obsession with the yankees.
the yankees spend about 50% more than the red sox, while the red sox spend about 50% more than the cardinals. when the yankees do it they are the "evil empire" and all thats wrong with baseball, but when the red sox do it they can easily justify it.
the yankees spend about 50% more than the red sox, while the red sox spend about 50% more than the cardinals. when the yankees do it they are the "evil empire" and all thats wrong with baseball, but when the red sox do it they can easily justify it.
MrBrau1
ONE love, blood, life
bitch, bitch, bitch.
saltwaterkiss26
War Child
MrBrau1 said:
I agree. Come on, guys, it's been 86 years. It's the craziest thing around here, nowadays; you walk down the street and people SMILE at you. This is Boston. That doesn't happen. Cars actually stop for pedestrians at street-crossings! (Well... some of them... Wouldn't want to get carried away.) Save the bitterness for just a little while longer. Let us bask in the glory that is winning, just for a little while, okay?
WinnieThePoo
Refugee
this story was probably written by a yankee fan
IWasBored
Blue Crack Supplier
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i'll buy this when the sox win 20 more championships. winning 1 world series doesn't quite sell me on them becoming just like the yankees. several years down the line, maybe, i don't know. i do know that care about this as much as i care about who schilling's voting for (and i really don't give a shit about that). 
or a disgruntled cards fan
or a disgruntled cards fan
zoney!
ONE love, blood, life
stop your whining, chiz.
speedracer
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
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Chizip said:
Actually, in retrospect, some of the Yankees' big signings were complete busts -- Jason Giambi, Javier Vazquez, Kevin Brown, Jose Contreras.
There is no disputing the fact that George Steinbrenner is evil, though.
chizip... once again... you are my hero.
speedracer
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
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Chizip said:
because the nation says so... and the nation is never wrong
[/sarcasm]
it's fine and dandy for somebody to hate the yankees. but god forbid somebody hate the red sox, too. they must be a yankee fan.
or they can just see through the hypocrisy of the red sox management/fans complaining about the yankees payroll when they themselves have the second highest payroll in baseball.
thus, i hate both teams.
but that said... again... the teams spending the most money is only part of what's wrong with baseball's economic structure. the current CBA was supposedly put in place to even out the playing field. only one owner voted against it... george steinbrenner. everyone claimed it was just steinbrenner being greedy, because it's cool to hate steinbrenner and blame him for everything. but king george was merely being a realist. he voted against the CBA because he claimed that it would
a) not make him or anyone else for that matter stop paying high prices for free agents, which it did not... and most importantly
b) it would not force the small market teams to spend the revnue sharing that they get from the luxary tax.
carl pholad owns the minnesota twins... one of the "small market" teams that can't compete. pohlad is a multi-billionaire. his fortune dwarfs steinbrenner's. the money that the twins got from the luxary tax that was applied to both the yankees and red sox payrolls went directly into pohlad's pocket, making a multi-billionaire, who has more money than steinbrenner, henry & luchino combined, even richer. THAT, my friends, is the real problem with baseball's salary structure.
i hate the red sox and yankees not because of how much money they spend... i hate them because frankly i can't stand the fan bases of either team. but let's get something straight and clear here... the most evil man in baseball is not named steinbrenner, cashman, luchino, henry or epstein. the most evil man in baseball, and the biggest obsticle in ever getting a true fair system installed, goes by the name of Selig.
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popacrobat
Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB
the red sox won.
but the red sox predominatly bought their title.
point really boils down to:
sox fans cant bitch about the yankees spending because what the sox are to the yankees money wise, the rest of the mlb exception a few teams are to the sox.
regardless, boston won. but they had to do it much like new york would.
but the red sox predominatly bought their title.
point really boils down to:
sox fans cant bitch about the yankees spending because what the sox are to the yankees money wise, the rest of the mlb exception a few teams are to the sox.
regardless, boston won. but they had to do it much like new york would.
Headache in a Suitcase said:
because the nation says so... and the nation is never wrong
[/sarcasm]
it's fine and dandy for somebody to hate the yankees. but god forbid somebody hate the red sox, too. they must be a yankee fan.
or they can just see through the hypocrisy of the red sox management/fans complaining about the yankees payroll when they themselves have the second highest payroll in baseball.
thus, i hate both teams.
but that said... again... the teams spending the most money is only part of what's wrong with baseball's economic structure. the current CBA was supposedly put in place to even out the playing field. only one owner voted against it... george steinbrenner. everyone claimed it was just steinbrenner being greedy, because it's cool to hate steinbrenner and blame him for everything. but king george was merely being a realist. he voted against the CBA because he claimed that it would
a) not make him or anyone else for that matter stop paying high prices for free agents, which it did not... and most importantly
b) it would not force the small market teams to spend the revnue sharing that they get from the luxary tax.
carl pholad owns the minnesota twins... one of the "small market" teams that can't compete. pohlad is a multi-billionaire. his fortune dwarfs steinbrenner's. the money that the twins got from the luxary tax that was applied to both the yankees and red sox payrolls went directly into pohlad's pocket, making a multi-billionaire, who has more money than steinbrenner, henry & luchino combined, even richer. THAT, my friends, is the real problem with baseball's salary structure.
i hate the red sox and yankees not because of how much money they spend... i hate them because frankly i can't stand the fan bases of either team. but let's get something straight and clear here... the most evil man in baseball is not named steinbrenner, cashman, luchino, henry or epstein. the most evil man in baseball, and the biggest obsticle in ever getting a true fair system installed, goes by the name of Selig.
and let me just add that i for one am not trying to make excuses or belittle the red sox accomplishment. they won the championship fair and square, playing completely within the current rules set forth by the CBA. the red sox and their fans deserve this championship, and they deserve to raise that banner high over fenway park... just as the yankees deserved to win the championships they won durring the late 90s, because they, too, were playing completely within the rules of the CBA.
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MrBrau1
ONE love, blood, life
Ya'll want some cheese to go with that whine? St. Louis spent more than Houston. Do ya feel bad they beat them? I haven't seen any threads started by Sox fans bashing the Card, or Yanks really for that matter. Enough with the disguised sour grapes, statements about "congrats to the Sox, BUT..."
WinnieThePoo
Refugee
that's because sox vs yankees / NYC Vs Boston = great rivalry in sports
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popacrobat
Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB
so?
WinnieThePoo
Refugee
cards had thier chance
they blew it ,
take it easy
prepare for next season ,
and that is a diplomatic way to say it
.............................
they blew it ,
take it easy
prepare for next season ,
and that is a diplomatic way to say it
.............................
fine... enough with the so called sour grapes about the red sox. let's also have enough of the bitching about the yankees spending lots of money, then. seems only fair, seeing as both teams do it.
popacrobat
Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB
i dont recall mentioning st louis aside from a financial comparision, in which i didnt even complain
so please re read next time
and that is a diplomatic way of saying it
so please re read next time
and that is a diplomatic way of saying it
IWasBored
Blue Crack Supplier
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Headache in a Suitcase said:
means about as much to me as bruce springsteen supporting kerry, which is nothing at all.
although it really looks like they're about to kiss each other.
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MrBrau1
ONE love, blood, life
An objective thread where the main posters are Cards fans and the greatest Yankee fan of all? 
MrBrau1 said:An objective thread where the main posters are Cards fans and the greatest Yankee fan of all?
here we go again with the i'm a yankee fan chat. really... it's getting old. i'm sorry that i hate the red sox. really am. apparently that's very offensive to a lot of people in here, who just can't imagine why i would hate them. oh well.i also appologize for having spent 4 years of my life studying sports management in college, because that has caused me to analyze baseball's financial situation more closely than just saying "yankees spend a lot of money, they suck." my sincere appologies for that, as well.
i also appologize for attempting to be an objective fan. i guess it comes with rooting for a team that blows. i'd sound pretty damn stupid if i said the yankees sucked when i root for a team that's finished well under .500 two years in a row. apparently that doesn't bother a large number of people. a team that wins 100+ games, no matter how much you may dislike them, doesn't suck, despite what many people feel.
oh well... again... my appologies.
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IWasBored said:
although it really looks like they're about to kiss each other.
thus why i posted it
