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Old 02-01-2004, 06:25 PM   #61
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Leafy greens are not high in protein.

Additionally, fish like salmon, tuna, etc. have a high omega fatty acid : protein ratio, relatively speaking and work to lower cholesterol. That's the difference between them and your standard red meat fare.

melon, my point stands: the studies consistantly and constantly show that a balanced diet including fruits, vegetables, FIBRE (hello, grains???), omega fatty acids lowers significantly one's chances of developing heart disease, atherosclerosis (not just of the arteries but in the brain), is associated with a lower incidence of things like diabetes, Alzheimer's, cancer.

Atkins is completely unconcerned with the beneficial aspects of carbohydrates that come from grains and fruits. It's insanity.
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Old 02-01-2004, 07:53 PM   #62
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Originally posted by beli

I could check today but I dont think people who are into Atkins are into listening to scientific data, or they would read what is already available.
That is a bit of a bogus statement.
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Old 02-01-2004, 09:24 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by beli
Oh. I dont think I have eaten more than one donut at a sitting in my life. Blood plums on the other hand........
see, that's why most americans have weight problems! the average american (not necessarily referring to anyone here, but the average american IS overweight) will eat as much as they want, and a lot of fatty food. however, for healthier americans and most abroad, they look at fatty foods as more of a once-in-a-while treat.

anyway, i really don't believe in either diet. the high-fat, low-carb diet is unhealthy, as is the low-fat, high-carb diet. me? i just try to have a little of everything. nothing's unhealthy if you do it in moderation. you can have some french fries, but don't eat an entire supersize order of them. get a happy meal if you want fast food. when i simply must have fast food, i try to get a burger OR fries, or just get a kid's meal. since i work in an industrial area, there's not a lot other than fast food around. so, i bring a tv dinner to work with me. it's a lot easier for me to count calories, fat grams, and even net carbs when it's all in black and white for me.

so when it comes to dinnertime, i just try to prepare something that contains as many food groups as possible. i've lost about 15 pounds in the past three months. that's not much when you compare it to others on atkins, south beach, or the high carb diet, who all probably lose that much in a month. however, to really ensure you not just lose weight, but keep it off (as with any diet, especially the low carb ones, you easily gain back what you lost and then some as soon as you get off the diet.) you really want to not only make sure it's a diet you wouldn't mind sticking with for life, and make sure you lose 1-2 pounds a week, and take breaks where you just maintain. otherwise, you'll be taxing your body and that's when you run the risk of organ damage.

it's a slow process, but if you just eat in moderation and exercise, you won't have to worry about the possibility of binging if you allow yourself to eat whatever you want. if you're on a low carb diet, you won't have to worry about what would happen if you just had to have, say, some apple pie or fries. or if you were on a high carb diet, you wouldn't have to worry if you ate some fried chicken or a burger.

sorry for the long post.
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Old 02-01-2004, 10:03 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram

The reason you feel sluggish without Carbs is that your brain feeds on carbs exclusively.

It's glucose that the brain needs, actually, and the amino acids that come from dietary protein are used for gluconeogenesis to provide the brain with the glucose it needs. I may have proof of this tomorrow when I get my boards results (to get my license for doctor of vet. med.). I debated whether or not to have a high carb breakfast prior to my test, to maybe give my brain a kick, but I decided against it because I knew it would be temporary and I would likely crash during the test. I'll let you all know soon....
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Old 02-01-2004, 10:09 PM   #65
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BTW, Ms. Lemon Once you are off induction you can have yogurt again - Blue Bunny is great, has lots of flavors, is made w/ Splenda, and is ~4g/cup. Breyers makes great chocolate and vanilla LC ice cream, strawberry too which isn't my fave
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Old 02-02-2004, 12:13 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by ~LadyLemon~


That is a bit of a bogus statement.
Just so beli knows (if she is at all interested ), we have bonosloveslave on the 'FOR' team with a degree in vet science (not exactly medicine I know) - therefore a pretty good knowledge of science, and also anitram on the 'AGAINST' team who is a biochemist. Among others there is a lawyer and probably many other all together intelligent people debating this Atkins. It suprises me just how many intelligent people are either on the diet, or adamantly against it.

One of the sides is missing something. I have no idea which though.
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Old 02-02-2004, 06:05 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem


Just so beli knows <snip> It suprises me just how many intelligent people are either on the diet, or adamantly against it.

One of the sides is missing something. I have no idea which though.
Thats kewl Angela. Thanks, I didn't know Anitram was a Biochemist. Im not offended by this kind of argument. Most of it has been rational and polite. Its not a winnable argument for anyone. People believe what they want to, read what they want to.

LadyLemon, I probably sounded a bit narky in my post this morning. My apologies for the way I came across. I still stand by the sentiment that theres a heck of a lot more data proving against Atkins then for but I didnt express myself in a mature manner. For this I apologise. I do get frustrated with my own inability to understand people from the USA. This diet is a classic example. We do have Atkins diet here, but not anywhere to the same extent as the USA. I find this diets main stream acceptance in the USA to be very very foreign.
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Old 02-02-2004, 10:27 AM   #68
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I can see why people would be Anti-Atkins, especially when the media delights in going on about how much fat you eat when you're doing Atkins. For the record, you can't eat as much cheese as you like - you can have up to 3-4oz per day.

I am following a low-carb diet, and I don't eat huge amounts of fatty food. For breakfast I make myself porridge from ground linseed (flaxseed) and soy protein. For lunch I will have lean meat / tuna with salad and maybe a small piece of cheese for calcium (I can't have too much dairy as I have allergies) , and for dinner I will eat more lean meat (eg chicken breast) with green veg - brocolli, cauliflower, cabbage). As a snack I will have a handful of berries - usually strawberries, blueberries and raspberries.

Every now and then for a treat I will have sugar free jelly (or Jello if you're American!). I don't eat any of the pre-prepared low carb food, as for me, one of the major pluses of the diet is not eating processed food anymore. How can it be unhealthy for me to be only eating natural foods?

Once I get closer to my target weight I will re-introduce whole grains, soy yoghurt and more fruits. I take supplements every day, but not the Atkins branded ones - I stick to a standard multi vitamin and the calcium tablets prescribed by my doctor (because of the dairy allergy)

You never 'come off' the Atkins diet - it's a lifestyle change. Hence why you'll never see an Atkins official call it a diet - it's a 'nutritional approach'.
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Old 02-02-2004, 11:15 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by bammo2
You never 'come off' the Atkins diet - it's a lifestyle change
This is the best net result of the Atkins experience. By simply eliminating refined sugars, and carbo-loaded "comfort" foods, and the unnecessary "side" dishes to meals (french fries, etc.), you have improved your health. It is great self training.
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Old 02-02-2004, 11:48 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by beli


LadyLemon, I probably sounded a bit narky in my post this morning. My apologies for the way I came across. I still stand by the sentiment that theres a heck of a lot more data proving against Atkins then for but I didnt express myself in a mature manner. For this I apologise. I do get frustrated with my own inability to understand people from the USA. This diet is a classic example. We do have Atkins diet here, but not anywhere to the same extent as the USA. I find this diets main stream acceptance in the USA to be very very foreign.
Oh it's no problem...I just had to call you on that assumption though
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Old 02-02-2004, 06:10 PM   #71
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It has been very interesting reading all of this debate on the atkins diet. Being a vegetarian my diet has always included heaps of carbs and in later life I have noticed myself put on weight, which is hard as most people assume that a vegetarian diet equals a thin waist line,. After all of the banter on carbs I did a little research and realised that carbs do put weight on you if you dont burn them off and if your diet is on carb overload then you are guranteed to put on weight. I noticed with myself that over a period of time my food intake remained the same, and at this rate I was relatively slim for my height, however my alcohol consumption increased and I did zero exercise. My carb intake increased and I was doing nothing to burn it off. And with hitting my mid twenties, where my metabolism was slowing down, I noticed myself go up two dress sizes.

I really believe in eating well and luckily for me I really dont find any takeaway/junk food nice or appealing, mainly because it is made from meat. I managed to put on weight and I do see carbs as one of the culprits and the other was no exercise. I really believe that all diets where you have to radically change your lifestyle are bad and not easily sustainable. After seeing a dietician I have changed my diet a little, as I was not prepared to give up my alcohol consumption I have now halved my other carb intake, so now instead of two pieces of toast in the morning I just have one and I have been eating loads more tofu and I have also upped my exercise levle. I really believe that nothing comes easy when it comes to weight loss, basically you just gotta get off your butt and limit what you eat and eat a healthy diet, simple
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Old 02-02-2004, 07:16 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem


Just so beli knows (if she is at all interested ), we have bonosloveslave on the 'FOR' team with a degree in vet science (not exactly medicine I know) - therefore a pretty good knowledge of science, and also anitram on the 'AGAINST' team who is a biochemist. Among others there is a lawyer and probably many other all together intelligent people debating this Atkins. It suprises me just how many intelligent people are either on the diet, or adamantly against it.

One of the sides is missing something. I have no idea which though.
I was thinking the same thing. It's a fascinating debate and it's been going on since the day the Atkins diet was introduced. I just look at all the people I've known who've done Atkins and loved it, it was a success with no ill effects. One person--only one out of I don't know how many but lots and lots of people I know who've done the Atkins diet--experienced an increase in cholesterol and decided it wasn't the right diet for him.

I think what's missing in both sides is an ackowledgment that everyone is different, and high carbo diets work for some people and high protein diets work for others. They both have something going on for them.
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Old 02-02-2004, 07:17 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally posted by OzAurora
It has been very interesting reading all of this debate on the atkins diet. Being a vegetarian my diet has always included heaps of carbs and in later life I have noticed myself put on weight, which is hard as most people assume that a vegetarian diet equals a thin waist
Same here.
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Old 03-18-2004, 01:14 PM   #74
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After watching my officemate drop 22 lbs in one month on Atkins and not put it back on in the months that followed, I decided to try it for 2 weeks not just to lose those winter 5 lbs but also I suspect I have some food allergies and candida, both of which could be addressed on Atkins. Also, Iíve been a vegetarian for 18 years and am paying dearly for it at this point in my life so I really need to eat protein and wean myself off a vegetarian diet, which after all these years I feel is a terrible way to live. Itís great until you hit 40 and then take a look at your bloodwork.

So Iím on day 4, following the induction phase of Atkins religiously. The results? I have no energy. I am having dizzy spells. I canít sleep. I have bad breath. I'm very irritable (stay away from me, I tell you!) Iím constipatedófor the first time in my life. And I havenít lost any weight, not even the water weight youíre supposed to lose the first few days. Iím not having sugar cravings and I feel sated after eating, but otherwise I feel like shit.

So for those of you who have been on this diet and experienced positive results, like many of my friends, is this all normal and will it improve soon? Like, later today???? Iím not looking for more Atkins bashing, just the experience of people who have been on it.
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Old 03-18-2004, 02:22 PM   #75
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Well, everything you've described is pretty par for the course during induction. I usually level off and start feeling really good around the 5th or 6th day (I've done induction 3 times).

The only thing I have a continual problem with is the constipation...even when I increase my salad greens I still feel really backed up so to speak I've started using a fiber supplement in the morning but so far, no luck.

And you probably haven't lost any weight yet because you don't have a large amount of fat stored away because of your vegan diet...I think people with larger amounts of weight to lose tend to lose it quicker.

Other than the digestive symptoms, I can tell you that once I got past the yucky part of induction, my skin cleared up and all of the yeast related problems I was having virtually disapeared. I feel really, really good right now.

Give it another week and see how you feel
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