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Old 05-03-2002, 03:12 AM   #16
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so few can make such a loud disturbing statement

idiots. imagine being one of the NY Islanders, especially a canadian, and seeing your fans, the people that you inspire, do this.

though admittedly this is a very small number of people doing this while most likely drunk and psyched for a game, this will not come off very well in canada. anyone remember the time the flag was hung upside down?
Quote:
from the national post

New York mob torched Canadian flag

Bruce Arthur
National Post
Thursday, May 02, 2002
ADVERTISEMENT

Days after being cheered as he sang the Canadian and American anthems before an NHL playoff game in Toronto, Robert Pomakov watched, horrified, as unruly New York hockey fans burned his Canadian flag in the parking lot of Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum.

Pomakov, an opera singer, saw both his Canadian and his Toronto Maple Leaf flags torn from his car and set on fire by a crowd chanting "U.S.A! U.S.A!" in the moments before Sunday's Game 6 between the Leafs and the New York Islanders.

"We lost four of our soldiers and they were basically defending these idiots," said an outraged Pomakov. "If patriotism is what drives these people and their ignorance, then I am ashamed to have our soldiers defending them."

Four Canadian soldiers were killed in Afghanistan on April 18 when a U.S. fighter plane mistakenly bombed them.

Pomakov, 21, is working on his masters of opera degree at the world-renowned Curtis Institute of Music in Philadelphia, from where he drove to Long Island for Sunday's game at the Coliseum, which is named in honour of U.S. war veterans.

He and fellow Torontonian Patrick Magee, also 21, decked themselves in Team Canada and Leafs jerseys and attached one regular-size Canadian flag and one Maple Leafs flag to broomsticks on their rental car. After being heckled as they pulled into the parking lot before the game, they could only look on as both flags were set alight.

"I was just shocked," he said. "There's a line that needs to be drawn, and this was so far across. You can't believe that you're watching the Canadian flag burn.

"There wasn't much we could do. There were a lot more of them than there were of us."

Pomakov felt the Americans' treatment of the Canadian flag was disgraceful.

Pomakov said the flags incident has not soured him on life in the United States. Still, he was pleased to see Toronto's Game 7 win on Tuesday, which set up a second-round Battle of Ontario series with the Ottawa Senators that begins tonight in Toronto.

Whatever the feelings of Torontonians toward the seat of federal government, or of Ottawans toward the seat of national commerce, the anthem is quite unlikely to be booed during the series.

[This message has been edited by kobayashi (edited 05-02-2002).]
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Old 05-03-2002, 03:41 AM   #17
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that is so completely horrible, some people are just such brainless idiots it makes your head hurt to think about it. as an American I'd apologize on their behalf if it was my right to do so.

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Old 05-03-2002, 04:30 AM   #18
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Originally posted by The Wanderer:
oh right, like that sort of behavior is exclusive to "hockey fans"
Alright, let me qualify that then. I'm sure that, since it's their game and all, most Canadians have a true appreciation of the game itself. In America, I'm not so sure. I think our fans are in it for the fights. At every hockey game I've ever been to, the crowd seems to be a collection of 18,000 drunk, junior high educated inbreds wearing WWF T-shirts.

Case in point: If I have a favorite team, it's the Caps. *Heaven only knows why.* Several years ago I went to a game down in Landover to see them play the Flyers. The Caps dumped Phily on their asses. In the parking lot afterwards a couple of jackasses tried to get in my face. Apparently, they saw my Pennsylvania license plates, put 2 and 2 together (came up with 5), and decided I was a Flyers fan. I suppose it was my fault, since I have better uses for $100 than to piss it away on a game jersey, which would have identified me better and been much less taxing on their feeble minds.

I got to another game recently at the MCI center downtown. Same crowd. I walked in and thought I was at a tractor pull. Hockey fans
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Old 05-03-2002, 05:11 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Clark W. Griswold, Jr:
Alright, let me qualify that then. I'm sure that, since it's their game and all, most Canadians have a true appreciation of the game itself. In America, I'm not so sure. I think our fans are in it for the fights. At every hockey game I've ever been to, the crowd seems to be a collection of 18,000 drunk, junior high educated inbreds wearing WWF T-shirts.

Case in point: If I have a favorite team, it's the Caps. *Heaven only knows why.* Several years ago I went to a game down in Landover to see them play the Flyers. The Caps dumped Phily on their asses. In the parking lot afterwards a couple of jackasses tried to get in my face. Apparently, they saw my Pennsylvania license plates, put 2 and 2 together (came up with 5), and decided I was a Flyers fan. I suppose it was my fault, since I have better uses for $100 than to piss it away on a game jersey, which would have identified me better and been much less taxing on their feeble minds.

I got to another game recently at the MCI center downtown. Same crowd. I walked in and thought I was at a tractor pull. Hockey fans
yeah, whatever

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Old 05-03-2002, 07:01 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Clark W. Griswold, Jr:
Alright, let me qualify that then. I'm sure that, since it's their game and all, most Canadians have a true appreciation of the game itself. In America, I'm not so sure. I think our fans are in it for the fights. At every hockey game I've ever been to, the crowd seems to be a collection of 18,000 drunk, junior high educated inbreds wearing WWF T-shirts.

Case in point: If I have a favorite team, it's the Caps. *Heaven only knows why.* Several years ago I went to a game down in Landover to see them play the Flyers. The Caps dumped Phily on their asses. In the parking lot afterwards a couple of jackasses tried to get in my face. Apparently, they saw my Pennsylvania license plates, put 2 and 2 together (came up with 5), and decided I was a Flyers fan. I suppose it was my fault, since I have better uses for $100 than to piss it away on a game jersey, which would have identified me better and been much less taxing on their feeble minds.

I got to another game recently at the MCI center downtown. Same crowd. I walked in and thought I was at a tractor pull. Hockey fans
are those the only two cultural experiences you've had in the last few years?
if so i could see how you would reach that inference.
but if you have left your house for somewhere else than you must see a much more civil society than i have.

drunk people always have been and always will be here.
people are more aggressive, especially kids these days. not just the hockey fan kids, kids in general.
whether you're at school, a hockey game, or the mall a lot of people wear WWF paraphenelia-it's very popular right now.

let me tell you the average NHL attending experience is much more pleasant than your own. the MCI center for myself was very enjoyable. as was the spectrum, msg, jo louis(sp?) whichever other american arena i've been in. this is not a canada-america issue or a hockey or even sports issue.
it is society and it reflects its ugly head in everything. but that is another thread for another time in another forum, most likely.
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Old 05-04-2002, 12:46 AM   #21
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by kobayashi:
are those the only two cultural experiences you've had in the last few years?

Must I answer this?

but if you have left your house for somewhere else than you must see a much more civil society than i have.


Actually , I do notice a difference between a hockey(WWF-NASCAR) crowd and the mainstream populous, thank you very much.

drunk people always have been and always will be here.
people are more aggressive, especially kids these days. not just the hockey fan kids, kids in general.


I concur, but I really wasn't speaking of kids; mostly the washed up 30 and 40 somethings who live vicariously through the thuggary they witness on the ice lately.


whether you're at school, a hockey game, or the mall a lot of people wear WWF paraphenelia-it's very popular right now.

Hmmm....within which socio-economic sector??

this is not a canada-america issue or a hockey or even sports issue.
it is society and it reflects its ugly head in everything.

I'm not sure I agree here. I would have to say I attend more college sports events than professional..at venues that do not sell alcohol. (Now, I'm not saying alcohol is the root of all evils. Many people, including myself can consume with responsibilty.) But the absence of beer in the stands definitely keeps the dirt bag population to a minimum at these games.

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Old 05-04-2002, 08:47 AM   #22
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your statement is a rash generalization. i could say how my experiences in american hockey rinks are nothing short of pleasant and say i've met nothing but friendly people and we playfully joke about our allegiances. does that mean all american hockey fans are pleasant people? no.

you are right to a certain extent that there is a higher degree of rough housing in hockey. that is the nhl's dirty little secret. through that they have definetely gained some new fans. but to extend that thought to the burning of flags and harassing other fans is a stretch.

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Old 05-04-2002, 02:55 PM   #23
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I usually go to several games per year in either NY, NJ, Philadelphia or DC, and I've never had a bad experience in my home teams arena or any other -- no one has ever been hostile and threatened me or been nasty, they may give me dirty looks or make sarcastic comments, but the many of the fans have been very pleasant with me, even when I've gone into Philadelphia wearing a Devils jersey, sure, there is the occasional jackass who might make a comment, but out of 20,000 people, that's not such a bad ratio... and usually, I end up chatting with the people about hockey as if we were friends. last year in the playoffs, I went to a New Jersey - Toronto game, and there were several Toronto fans who made the trip down from Canada to be at the game (we are talking maybe a thousand or more fans), no one gave them any trouble, yeah there were a few obnoxious fans that may have said something if they cheered when Toronto scored, but I know I personally I enjoyed conversing with a group of three guys sitting next to me who were from somewhere near Toronto, I always enjoy talking to knowlegeable fans

but that's just been my experiences at the games I've been too
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Old 05-07-2002, 04:27 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by kobayashi:

but to extend that thought to the burning of flags and harassing other fans is a stretch.
I guess what really pissed me off about the whole Canadian flag burning thing was that, as an American, I'm pretty well used to seeing our flag being torched by some chump from the Middle East or elsewhere in the third world. I can't tolerate fellow Americans involving themselves in the same childish actions.
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