Shuttlecock XVIII - SAVE US, REFU-JESUS

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Nope. That cavalcade of sounds really excites me, every time I hear it. It's not just some run-of-the-mill pedestrian intro, like, at all. You've got that weirdass guitar line that opens, then this atmospheric, distorted guitar unfolding itself in the left ear and a beautiful string line in the right. Then Bono and Larry wade in as if through fog. The way you talk about it is if it's some idiot guitarist discovering distortion for the first time.
 
Come on man. You've listened to a lot of music. "Fucking thrilling" is hyperbolic. Yeah there's some distortion there. Who gives a shit.

Where the hell is Axver to support me on this anyway.

:lol:

I'm with you on So Cruel. Easily one of the most boring songs in U2's entire catalogue. I remember when it used to be hated on Interference almost as much as Red Light, but it definitely seems to have enjoyed reappraisal - a shame really, as it deserves to be considered one of Achtung's lesser moments.

But as for WGRYWH, I'm with the others mostly. It isn't my favourite from Achtung, but it's still a pretty good song.

If you'd named Tryin' to Throw, I'd concur.
 
It's not even their second best album.



Bullshit. Who's Gonna Ride Your Wild Horses is fucking thrilling, and so far from rote. What a ridiculous thing to say. That first minute or so is absolutely thrilling, as Laz says some of the sonics going on pushes the boundaries for them, the chorus is an absolute monster. I remember the first time I listened to it with good headphones, years after I first heard it, and it was like hearing it for the first time. There's so much going on in the very back of the mix, different instruments coming through different channels.

And So Cruel is a huge achievement. I can see how some could consider it a slog but the slog is the fucking point of the song, imo. It's the band wading through a heap of shit and coming out on the other side. Bono's vocals in the final take of the chorus are stunning, to me: a man finally snapping out of the haze, realising the toxicity of the relationship he's in and coming to a place of acceptance; I can see Bono smiling as he sings that reworded final line: "to stay with you, I'd be a fool / oooh love, sweetheart, you're so cruel..." The music is great as well. The rhythm section is the winner, and then there's some lovely guitar playing from Edge as well as the piano.

The lyrics to both - in particular So Cruel, as LM says, one of Bono's top performances both vocally and lyrically - are stellar if you ask me. I have never had an issue with the empty lot line. Who gives a shit. It hardly takes you out of the song. Maybe it's a slightly clunky metaphor but it's delivered well and the song's great.

I'd easily rate So Cruel one of U2's great moments on record. It clicked for me when I started thinking of it as a sort of fucked up take on a Roy Orbison song. Top ten of all time.

For me, where it kicks in, where you know it's not just a bit of pleasant filler, is 'I'm only hanging on, to watch you go down... my love" and from there in as the music swells. And then later in the song as it shifts to a more and more urgent tone.

If there were any Achtung Baby track I might regard as a little ho-hum, it'd be Tryin To Throw Your Arms Around The World, and even it works fine in context (ie. don't have a problem with it, it's an Irish hangover song hahah).

As for Arcade Fire we shall agree to disagree.
 
Last edited:
Wild Horses is a remarkable pop song (that chord progression!)

The chord progression in the bridge is probably U2's finest classical songwriting moment in their entire catalog. The dramatic seamless shift and Bono firing on all lyrical cylinders. Punctuated by that sublime melodic segue back into the chorus Really a moment that would make Lennon and McCartney blush.

That is just a stunning bridge. Their best. Spectacular.
 
It really kills me they haven't played Wild Horses live more often over the last 25 years.
 
Last edited:
I'd easily rate So Cruel one of U2's great moments on record. It clicked for me when I started thinking of it as a sort of fucked up take on a Roy Orbison song. Top ten of all time.

For me, where it kicks in, where you know it's not just a bit of pleasant filler, is 'I'm only hanging on, to watch you go down... my love" and from there in as the music swells. And then later in the song as it shifts to a more and more urgent tone.

If there were any Achtung Baby track I might regard as a little ho-hum, it'd be Tryin To Throw Your Arms Around The World, and even it works fine in context (ie. don't have a problem with it, it's an Irish hangover song hahah).

Yep. It's such a bitter song, it's amazing.

Won't agree with any post disparaging Tryin to Throw, I've always loved that song dearly. The Irish hangover vibe is just wonderful, the lyrics are a lot of fun, it's effortless in its beauty... the type of song they wrote all too infrequently.

My one unpopular opinion about Achtung is that Mysterious Ways is probably my least favourite song on it. Still love it, but it just doesn't do quite as much for me as some of the other songs.
 
My U2 rushmore (days late):

A Sort of Homecoming/Streets/The Fly/Beautiful Day


Best live song: Bad



I think if you're doing a song ranking, it should be 1-5. That's such an easy thing for people to quantify.

5 = classic
4 = great
3 = good
2 = meh
1 = bad


Very, very simple. I do like the idea of doing this just among the Shuttlecock crowd as it will be slanted toward the band's more experimental leanings, etc.
 
Can't get over so many people listing Zooropa. I wish the band could take to heart how much we appreciate it when they get innovative and push past what might make a hit on the radio.

The big irony being that Zooropa was a hit on radio. As a radio single in the United States it peaked at #8 on the rock chart and #13 on the alternative chart.

And that's kind of funny in itself because the rock format tends to favor harder edged stuff (or at least used to) and Zooropa itself won the Grammy for Alternative album.

I can't even recall the last time U2 had a song go that high on either of those charts...maybe "All Because of You" and if not that, surely "Vertigo"...so much for their strategy this century actually paying any dividends. They've mostly been a minor radio act outside of AAA radio (adult rock).
 
I had to go listen to Wide Awake in America to get clean after reading these last few posts.

Arguably the definitive commercially released version of "Bad" but I also consider the version of "A Sort of Homecoming" to be the single mix, and yes, the definitive version of that song as well.

Yes, I know the original is just a flat out magnificent bit of Eno production, but that "live" take absolutely SOARS.
 
that being said i'm listening to boy right now and if we're going to do LN7's amazing rating idea (and we definitely should) it should for sure be on a ten point scale. 1 to 5 is a bit too restrictive of a comparison even on this album.

Eh, but with so many people submitting ballots you'll quickly have huge gaps between songs. Maybe a little restrictive for the individual, I guess, but it would work as far as averages go.
 
A few things after reading the last couple pages...

I'm in agreement with basically every good thing that's been said about Horses. It's a beautiful song. It accomplishes the feat of being beautiful and catchy without being feeling lightweight or in any way bubble-gum-ish. The bridge, or middle 8, is indeed perhaps the best of their career, just haunting(and U2DM fan is exactly right that the 'don't turn around' transition back into the chorus is sublime in every way). And Bono delivers a tremendous vocal performance.

It's a shame they haven't played it since the Vertigo Tour(or, to put it another way, in 12 years), and that was the only tour they ever play it on(in full) after ZooTV. Probably their most underplayed 'successful' single.

Also, while I enjoy the Temple Bar Mix, the Temple Bar Edit, which completely cuts out the incredible bridge, should never have been a thing.

---

I also agree with everything that's been said in support of So Cruel. Bono's vocal performance, the bitterness, everything. It's a sensational lyric, with three peaks for me. The first two - 'to watch you go down' and 'to stay with you I'd be a fool' have been touched on.

The third comes right before the last chorus - 'between the horses/of love and lust/we are trampled/underfoot'. The line always gets me. Probably one of the most poetic lines he's written. Riveting imagery.
 
God, it's hilarious how many posters it took in the discussion involving debut albums to bring up Velvet Underground & Nico. Regardless of your personal preferences, that is unquestionably the most important debut album ever made and it's not even close.

Also, concerning "Bad" live, the band was actually going to put a live version of that and "Bullet The Blue Sky" on the first Best Of before "chickening out"...I forget what interview I read about that. Guess I should bring up that "Gloria" was also supposed to be on it but the master tape was in terrible condition which makes you wonder just how they did a remaster some ten years later for the reissue.

I was thinking some more about The Best of 1990-2000 the other day because of discussion in here and the real problem they clearly had was that their aren't enough songs of the correct caliber to make it on there. Obviously, there's songs like "Zoroopa" that they have since changed their tune about and you could argue "The Fly" as well which Edge referred to as "dated" when the compilation was being released...but what other tunes from Pop really reached that stratosphere to make it onto such a compilation? I'd have to scratch my head. I know "Please" has its proponents, but it's just not a stunner to general audiences or even a good chunk of fans including myself (I have never liked it). "If God Will Send His Angels"..."Last Night On Earth"..."Mofo"...none of that stuff stands tall really with the Achtung Baby singles and the like.
 
Last edited:
Also, while I enjoy the Temple Bar Mix, the Temple Bar Edit, which completely cuts out the incredible bridge, should never have been a thing.

That mix is definitive. Same for single versions of Please, Mofo, Last Night On Earth, Until the End of the World (soundtrack mix), yada yada. So many songs that they basically "finished" after they were on an album.
 
Also, since Axver brought it up, I have to state one of my own unpopular opinions: Red Light is a good song.

I'll grant the baby-ish background voices were maybe unnecessary, but other than that, I don't see the problem.

I love the trumpet. It creates such a jazzy atmosphere, especially later on in the song. The band really hasn't explored that musical territory much, if at all, so I really appreciate it here. I always ended up bobbing my head and tapping my foot along with the trumpet solo(and all of the trumpet parts).

I'm also a fan of Bono's vocal performance. Aggressive and energetic and gritty, 100% committed. I think the falsetto he uses on a few lines is one of his earliest uses of it on record, too.

And the chorus, while insubstantial and simple, is a perfectly enjoyable singalong chorus that fits the song's needs well imo.

Have at me.
 
With you namckur - I’ve always liked Red Light. I think it’s great. Chorus is a banger.

EPAA as well, although that’s not really an unpopular thing to say here, it’s always been reasonably well liked. The last 30 or so seconds of that song are terrific.
 
God, it's hilarious how many posters it took in the discussion involving debut albums to bring up Velvet Underground & Nico. Regardless of your personal preferences, that is unquestionably the most important debut album ever made and it's not even close.

Also, concerning "Bad" live, the band was actually going to put a live version of that and "Bullet The Blue Sky" on the first Best Of before "chickening out"...I forget what interview I read about that. Guess I should bring up that "Gloria" was also supposed to be on it but the master tape was in terrible condition which makes you wonder just how they did a remaster some ten years later for the reissue.

I was thinking some more about The Best of 1990-2000 the other day because of discussion in here and the real problem they clearly had was that their aren't enough songs of the correct caliber to make it on there. Obviously, there's songs like "Zoroopa" that they have since changed their tune about and you could argue "The Fly" as well which Edge referred to as "dated" when the compilation was being released...but what other tunes from Pop really reached that stratosphere to make it onto such a compilation? I'd have to scratch my head. I know "Please" has its proponents, but it's just not a stunner to general audiences or even a good chunk of fans including myself (I have never liked it). "If God Will Send His Angels"..."Last Night On Earth"..."Mofo"...none of that stuff stands tall really with the Achtung Baby singles and the like.

You mean other than the three Pop songs that were on it(Discotheque, SATS, Gone)? Please is the only other one I'd say that absolutely needed to put on there. And I, along with most in here, will strenuously disagree with you on the quality of Please. It's an incredible song.

Outside of Pop, Lemon should have been on there(just look at the people here singing its praises).

And from Achtung itself, The Fly and Horses - which we've just been discussing - should've been on it.

BD, Stuck, and First Time shouldn't have been.
 
What The Best Of 1990-2000 should be given the band's changes of heart and what songs have aged well, etc...


Achtung Baby (5): The Fly, Mysterious Ways, One, Even Better Than The Real Thing, Until The End of the World

Zooropa (5): Zooropa, Lemon, Numb, Stay, The First Time (it can stay, MDH representation of sorts and doesn't seem out of place)

Original Sountracks I (2): Miss Sarajevo, Your Blue Room

Batman Forever (1): Hold Me Thrill Me Kiss Me Kill Me

Pop (2): Discotheque, Gone


Gone (New MIx) could have been the single akin to Sweetest Thing being remade for the other one.
 
With you namckur - I’ve always liked Red Light. I think it’s great. Chorus is a banger.

EPAA as well, although that’s not really an unpopular thing to say here, it’s always been reasonably well liked. The last 30 or so seconds of that song are terrific.

EPAA seems to be a no-middle-ground song. You either think it's a gorgeous, captivating ambient masterpiece, or you think it's unfocused unfinished garbage. I fall firmly in the former camp. One of their most uniquely beatiful tracks, and that ending, as you say, is absolutely thrilling.
 
With you namckur - I’ve always liked Red Light. I think it’s great. Chorus is a banger.

EPAA as well, although that’s not really an unpopular thing to say here, it’s always been reasonably well liked. The last 30 or so seconds of that song are terrific.



I know people like it. The outright climax specifically. But the bonoglese turns some off - I appreciate it as an improv and think it's one of the most atmospheric tracks in their discography.
 
What The Best Of 1990-2000 should be given the band's changes of heart and what songs have aged well, etc...


Achtung Baby (5): The Fly, Mysterious Ways, One, Even Better Than The Real Thing, Until The End of the World

Zooropa (5): Zooropa, Lemon, Numb, Stay, The First Time (it can stay, MDH representation of sorts and doesn't seem out of place)

Original Sountracks I (2): Miss Sarajevo, Your Blue Room

Batman Forever (1): Hold Me Thrill Me Kiss Me Kill Me

Pop (2): Discotheque, Gone


Gone (New MIx) could have been the single akin to Sweetest Thing being remade for the other one.

You've still omitted Horses and Pleae and eliminated SATS. I don't accept.
 
Can you even imagine what a Best Of 2000-2010 would look like?

I can.

Beautiful Day
Stuck In A Moment
Elevation
Vertigo
Get On Yer Boots
All Because Of You
City Of Blinding Lights
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own (Miracle Fuck Remix)
Stand Up Comedy
All Because Of You (Hidden Track)
Window In The Skies
 
Problem with "Horses" being included on the second best of is two-fold. First off, it's the sixth most important number from Achtung Baby, so would they really want to have one album be represented by a half dozen songs?

But more importantly, it's just not important as far as U2's legacy is concerned. At all, really. Basically never played live after the initial tour..."Zoo Station" and "Ultra Violet" have had a bunch of play since then as have the other five songs. I love the song just as much as all of you, but it just doesn't define U2 at all.
 
That mix is definitive. Same for single versions of Please, Mofo, Last Night On Earth, Until the End of the World (soundtrack mix), yada yada. So many songs that they basically "finished" after they were on an album.

I assume you're referring to the full mix and not the edit.

The mix is good, but I think most here would take the album cut.
 
Can you even imagine what a Best Of 2000-2010 would look like?

I can.

Beautiful Day
Stuck In A Moment
Elevation
Vertigo
Get On Yer Boots
All Because Of You
City Of Blinding Lights
Stand Up Comedy
All Because Of You (Hidden Track)
Window In The Skies

More realistically...

Ground Beneath Her Feet
Beautiful Day
Stuck In A Moment
Elevation
Walk On
Kite
Vertigo
Sometimes
COBL
ABOY
OOTS
Boots
Magnificent
MOS(yes, MOS, I think the band loves it enough to put it here)
Crazy Tonight(Live 360 version)

Perhaps Electrical Storm, Hands(since it won a Golden Globe and got nominated for an Oscar), and WITS if they're up for including 'new' tracks from previous Best Ofs.
 
Can you even imagine what a Best Of 2000-2010 would look like?

I can.

Beautiful Day
Stuck In A Moment
Elevation
Vertigo
Get On Yer Boots
All Because Of You
City Of Blinding Lights
Stand Up Comedy
All Because Of You (Hidden Track)
Window In The Skies


Except those first two were already on a compilation, lol.


But I can imagine 2000-2020:


All That You Can't Leave Behind (3): Elevation, Walk On, In A Little While

How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb (3): Vertigo, Sometimes, City of Blinding Lights

18Singles (1): Window In The Skies

No Line On The Horizon (1): Moment of Surrender

Songs of Innocence (1): Every Breaking Wave

Songs of Experience (1): Best Thing

Recent Non-Album Stuff (2): Invisible, Ordinary Love


Window and In A Little While are the only two that aren't guaranteed locks from that group. Everything else would 100% be on such a compilation. 10 songs just from the locks and 12 with those other two.


"Magnificent" would be most likely to be the second NLOTH option. They know "Boots" wasn't received well and "Magnificent" was actually performed on the SOI tour and was the second single.

A second selection from SOI could practically be anything, really. I imagine there would be at least two from SOE given how pop oriented it happens to be...it's their most hit friendly record since Bomb.
 
Problem with "Horses" being included on the second best of is two-fold. First off, it's the sixth most important number from Achtung Baby, so would they really want to have one album be represented by a half dozen songs?

But more importantly, it's just not important as far as U2's legacy is concerned. At all, really. Basically never played live after the initial tour..."Zoo Station" and "Ultra Violet" have had a bunch of play since then as have the other five songs. I love the song just as much as all of you, but it just doesn't define U2 at all.

But by that logic, Your Blue Room shouldn't be on it either.
 
Back
Top Bottom