Should Bon Jovi be in the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame.... - Page 4 - U2 Feedback

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Old 04-11-2004, 11:00 AM   #46
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Innovation.... I've got two words for you...

POP METAL...

People might mention Kiss, but those guys are more bluesy IMO...

Dude, if Satriani and Vai rave about Sambora (guys who have done things with the guitar that even the guitar giants like Clapton, Hendrix, Page, etc have not the skill to do or the innovations) then that says a lot. Sambora is rated fairly highly by guitar mags.

Metal has several different genres and sounds.... to lump Bon Jovi and Metallica together is wrong and inaccurate IMO.

Bon Jovi's influence over 25 years = having a hit album every decade with at least two albums in the eighties that were HUGE.

Another sign of influence = the haters themselves.... A band can be defined by the number of loving/ loyal fans but IMO the fact that Bon Jovi are even well known to their haters says a lot... I bet some haters would recognize a Bon Jovi song immediately or already know a couple of songs. That is influence that deserves to be recognized.
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Old 04-11-2004, 11:31 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by beli
Bon Jovi were never Glam Rock - thats 70's .

that's not exactly true either.
there were plenty of glam rock bands in the eighties.

anyway ... sure.
put bon jovi in the hall of fame. why not.
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Old 04-11-2004, 11:58 AM   #48
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OK, fair enough, but none of you have still answered or given me any specifics on WHAT he has done that is different? Satriani and Vai said they were inspired by him, OK, what about him? The other thing you have to realize is that in an interview where artists are asked about other artists MOST typically give the canned polite response. Unless they gave specifics it would appear to me that is what they were doing. But please feel fre to prove me wrong, I'am no expert on BJ. Both guitarists you mention are great guitarists on a technical level. I may get flamed for this one but I dont think they were all that innovative. Innovative to me is Hendricks or Clapton. Then later someone like Eddie Van Halen. These people changed the way the guitar was played and created their own sound. I just dont place Richie Sambora in that list. Personally, I dont hear anything very original in Samboras playing. I'am not saying he is a bad guitarist, but I dont think he has offered much if anything new.

Its obvious BJ have alot of fans, especially in Europe for some reason. Thats cool, I dont hate them even though it may look like I do based on my post. Just never been a fan. I have seen them twice in concert and thought it was OK. I was struck by how much and flagrantly Jon Bon Jovi copies people like Bruce and Bono. I will give them credit though. I have read stories about them and they seem to really care about their fans. I think that is cool and at least they are playing rock music, not teeny bopper BS.

Anyway, they will probebly get in eventually. But I dont think they deserve to anytime soon. Artists that get in immediately when they are first eligible need to be very special musicians. (IE The Beatles, Stones, U2!! LOL, etc..)

Also those of you that mentioned Kiss and G N R. Those bands probebly wont make it. G N R didnt do enough together or stay together long enough to make it. Really, and I'am no fan here, but Kiss has been around forever and they really changed how things were done on a live level. So at least they were innovative in that regard. So why do BJ deserve to make it over them? They have had just as big if not more of an impact on music. Anyway, let the debate continue.
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Old 04-11-2004, 01:15 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flying FuManchu
to lump Bon Jovi and Metallica together is wrong and inaccurate IMO.
Yes, very, very wrong. Do not put them together. Never.


I don't know if "POP METAL" is actually a genre or just an expression that was invented or whatever. And the reason why a lot of people have no respect (including me) for this Pop Metal thing is because such genre just can't exist cause one thing has nothing to do with the other. Heavy metal is supposed to be aggressive and angry and Pop is... not. One is the opposite of the other. As soon as someone label a band as Pop Metal I just roll my eyes and leave. The more realistic way is to say Hard Rock, where the guitar riffs and the drums are slightly more hard and prominent but still there is a lot of melodies and in some bands a more cheesy approach to the lyrics.
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Old 04-11-2004, 01:38 PM   #50
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It could happen

Quote:
Originally posted by Blue Room
Its obvious BJ have alot of fans, especially in Europe for some reason.
What do you mean "for some reason"? Are you saying us Europeans have bad taste in music?

In all seriousness, I can't say I know enough Bon Jovi songs to make any judgement on them (used to have their album with "Lay your hands on me"), I'd know their 90's and onwards single songs if I heard them on the radio - I respect them for coming out of the 80's and still sticking with making music and touring, like U2, like REM, like Red hot Chili peppers, like Depeche Mode etc...you know?
They're doing their own thing, I've seen their live show on TV and I can't say they were bad or that Jon is a bad performer. Perhaps a bit of a cliche rock show, but not unbearable by any means.
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Old 04-11-2004, 01:42 PM   #51
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Can you name a band that got together because of Bon Jovi?

Can you tell me how Bon Jovi perpetuates Rock N Roll?

Can you tell me what Bon Jovi brought to Rock N Roll that no one else has?

These are some of the questions that need to answered before inducting a band into the hall of fame and frankly Bon Jovi doesn't have any of this.

Yes they are a long lasting, good band that has many fans but it takes more that this.
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Old 04-11-2004, 02:28 PM   #52
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(1) The Darkness... Many of Bon jovi's peers resorted to a more pop outlook in their music... case in point- Motley Crue.

(2) The music itself is ... blues based, nice guitar riffs, with rock vocals...

(3) The last question is sort of funny to answer b/c the question presupposes that rock n roll and many of the current inductees or today's practitoners are entirely original with their music which isn't the case. A lot of music is basically the artist's spin on it.

U2 is a perfect case of that. U2 isn't the first to rely on political lyrics, religious themed lyrics, delay based guitar music, minimalism, etc...

Just like Tarantino with his movies aren't entirely original in terms of ideas... they've all been done in some form and Tarantino wasn't the first to develop something such as use of flashbacks, camera angles, witty repartee... however what makes his movies unique as said by him is its his point of view....
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Old 04-11-2004, 02:41 PM   #53
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As for the influence of Sambora as a guitarist...

I couldn't tell you off hand but I've read several guitar mags that pointed to Richie as being a guitar great and one can't look down/ ignore accomplished instrumentalists such as Vai and Satriani praising the guy... I'll do some research, but IMO b/c of his axeman rep, Bon Jovi still retains some form of legitimacy....

What made Clapton and Hendrix innovative and guys like Satriani and Vai not so innnovative? Hendrix I understand from readin up on him (use of wah, distortion, etc.) Clapton for his work with Cream (i.e. massive guitar wanking, improvisation, and the reintroduction of the blues to rock n'roll). Van Halen for his use fret tapping and speed which wasn't "new" but unheard of then.

Vai and Satriani actually helped bring about the acceptance of rock guitar instrumental albums while also pushing the boundaries of virtuosity i.e use of different musical scales and strange chords outside of the typical blues box/ pentatonic scale.

People get all choked up about the "sounds" that some guitarist make but these guys push get those sounds and then some in just one song (outside of using their speed). That to me is innovation.

Again I will check up on innovation/ influence of Sambora...
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Old 04-11-2004, 02:45 PM   #54
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I believe pop metal is a style/ genre b/c to be honest 70s style classic rock just sounds somewhat different.

Again Bon Jovi also pushed the glam metal aspect of things....
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Old 04-11-2004, 02:48 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flying FuManchu
As for the influence of Sambora as a guitarist...

I couldn't tell you off hand but I've read several guitar mags that pointed to Richie as being a guitar great and one can't look down/ ignore accomplished instrumentalists such as Vai and Satriani praising the guy...
You can still be a good guitar player without having to come up with a whole new thing of your own. Slash never did anything unheard before like Hendrix for example but he is still a great guitar player. I donít think Sambora has ever done something new or taken guitar playing to another level but he is still a good guitar player nonetheless. His band however is not that great. Simple.
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Old 04-11-2004, 02:56 PM   #56
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The whole question of being innovative as being a sticking point is sort of funny to me.... Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers are an amzing band but they are not "innovative." If they are in then I don't see why Bon Jovi can't be b/c Bon Jovi was actually at the forefront of a big "movement" be it good or bad taste-wise.
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Old 04-11-2004, 04:46 PM   #57
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Re: It could happen

Quote:
Originally posted by U2girl


What do you mean "for some reason"? Are you saying us Europeans have bad taste in music?

In all seriousness, I can't say I know enough Bon Jovi songs to make any judgement on them (used to have their album with "Lay your hands on me"), I'd know their 90's and onwards single songs if I heard them on the radio - I respect them for coming out of the 80's and still sticking with making music and touring, like U2, like REM, like Red hot Chili peppers, like Depeche Mode etc...you know?
They're doing their own thing, I've seen their live show on TV and I can't say they were bad or that Jon is a bad performer. Perhaps a bit of a cliche rock show, but not unbearable by any means.
LOL, U2Girl, no thats no what I meant. Its interesting to me that they are very popular in Europe and not anywhere near as popular in the U.S. (Except maybe NJ) where they are from. Thats what I was referring to.

Flying, its obvious you are a big BJ fan. Thats cool, but basically U2girl has really summed up my opinion of them. They are OK, dont hate them, dont love them. They just dont really do anything for me live or album wise. They were at the start of a movement??? They became big in 1987, the pop hard rock scene you refer to was well under way at that point, they rode the wave that had already begun. Motley Crue became popular in 1983, broke huge with the first power ballad to make it in 85, well before BJ really became really well known. So how were they inspired by BJ? MC may have appreciate what they were doing when BJ did make it, but I dont see any type of influence there at all. BJ were just one of the more popular bands in that genre from that time frame. They managed to survive grunge because they have a strong fanbase. But it wasnt because they were doing anything groundbreaking. You will never convince me that Sambora is some type of guitar God who is changed the rock landscape in any way, its simply not true. He is a good guitarist, but not legendary by any means. Nothing wrong with that, I dont think Edge is a legendary guitarist either. But here is something Edge does have over Sambora. Edge has a distinctive style that wasnt really done by others. On a technical level its not anything major, but, it is original. That is the problem I have with BJ. I just dont find it very original or full of all that much substance. Its just my personal opinion. Just like you have yours.

The point is moot really. They will probebly get in eventually. Do I think they deserve to? Not really, but there are performers I cant stand that may make it in. Do I really care if they do? Not really, so why I'am I responding to this thread? Hmm, not sure, LOL boredom??
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Old 04-11-2004, 06:45 PM   #58
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Yeesh... slaps own head for being off... I concede my mentioning of Motley Crue and the timeline associated with Bon Jovi and the Crue is off... they are peers and started at the same time (meaning I goofef) but you're probably right in that Bon Jovi and it's popularity came a bit after the Crue's beginnings. They may not have been that influential for the Crue but my point is that the more pop aspects of Bon Jovi (i.e. hooks and the power ballad) was grasped by many a hair band and IMO Bon Jovi was a huge influence in that. If not Motley Crue, then there was someone else of equal fame to imitate

Dr. Feelgood was a pop album though and IMO and did come after Bon Jovi's hugeness, so I think that is why I was claiming influence. Extreme, Warrant, Poison, Ozzy, Damn Yankees, White Snake were getting poppish and dominated the charts, etc.... IMO, Bon Jovi was the biggest of the bunch and IMO helped push pop metal to the forefront and I do believe its success contributed to a specific style that was done by many "metal" bands. I do not think its too hard to believe Bon Jovi didn't influence its peers...

Also Blue Room... I believe the Edge is an influential/ important guitarist of the likes of Hendrix or Clapton.
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Old 04-11-2004, 08:23 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flying FuManchu
(1) The Darkness... Many of Bon jovi's peers resorted to a more pop outlook in their music... case in point- Motley Crue.

(2) The music itself is ... blues based, nice guitar riffs, with rock vocals...

(3) The last question is sort of funny to answer b/c the question presupposes that rock n roll and many of the current inductees or today's practitoners are entirely original with their music which isn't the case. A lot of music is basically the artist's spin on it.

I would say the darkness are more influenced by Queen than anyone.

I should have worded the second question a little different I meant how did they cause rock to keep moving and evolving, take a look at all the bands inducted and they all raised the bar somehow so when bands behind them came up it forced them to take a step up. Bon Jovi never did this, if Bon Jovi didn't exist music would still be where it is today.

I didn't say that every band inducted had to be completely original, every band is derivative of the bands before them, but those who put their own touch to it and then bring something else to the table get inducted. I just haven't seen Bon Jovi do that.
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Old 04-12-2004, 12:46 AM   #60
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At the Hall of Fame there's a perfectly good water closet just screaming for an exhibit.



Oh wait, that's the BFI bin in the back. I tend to get the voices of inanimate objects mixed up.

Why is it whenever I talk about Bon Jovi, my focus of discussion inevitably leads to the topic of inanimate object voices?

Curious indeed.
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