shaun vox
New Yorker
note BJ is short for bon jovi hehahahheeh get it BJ.
put GNR in the HOF and then well talk.
put GNR in the HOF and then well talk.
BonoVoxSupastar said:Can you name a band that got together because of Bon Jovi?
Can you tell me how Bon Jovi perpetuates Rock N Roll?
Can you tell me what Bon Jovi brought to Rock N Roll that no one else has?
These are some of the questions that need to answered before inducting a band into the hall of fame and frankly Bon Jovi doesn't have any of this.
Yes they are a long lasting, good band that has many fans but it takes more that this.
Pinball Wizard said:I've heard that too! They can't touch Shawn Kemp though.
U2Kitten said:
Why does that even matter? Has every band that ever got inducted been scrutinized by that list? What have a lot of inductees brought that 'no one else has', a lot of them can't be judged by that.
They perpetuate rock by continuing to sell records and sell out arenas.
Bands that got together? Who knows. Maybe some have and haven't mentioned them, maybe a lot did but never made it big. I don't think it should be required for membership that you can prove somebody heard someone's record and said, yeah, I wanna be just like him! I'm sure everybody has had that happen at some point whether or not we know it.
And I am SO tired of the elitist attitude of some of the people here that only THEIR bands 'matter' and bands they don't like all 'suck.'
There are bands in the Hall that I like and that I don't care for. But SOMEBODY cared for them, and it's not all about me. So good for them and their fans.
BonoVoxSupastar said:
Look I didn't say that if a band doesn't make it into the hall of fame they suck. A lot of my fave bands will not make it into the hall of fame and I'm fine with that.
Those questions are very similar to the questions asked by the hall of fame.
To me it takes more than selling albums and tours to perpetuate Rock and Roll.
I'm just stating my opinion if I were to be on the board.
I like some of their songs, in fact I owned Slippery when Wet on Vinyl, but I still think they are saccarine and that rock music would still be in the same place if they never existed.
Flying FuManchu said:
But how do you "pepetuate" rock n roll, pray tell?
I'm serious.... I've given examples through popularity and the maintenace of specific rock n roll aspects in their music (i.e the use guitar riffs, blues aspects, and Sambora's supposed contribution to guitar as attributed to guitar mags). What else can be done? Or do you mean perpetuate "YOUR" style of rock n' roll?
Again, I love Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers and they were the first band I really got into but they are in the hall and I don't see how they perpetuated rock n'roll anymore then Bon Jovi.
U2Kitten said:I don't mean for this to be a debate about Petty vs. Bon Jovi because I love Tom Petty and respect him, his music, his videos and his career. He totally belongs in the HOF. But I do agree that he really hasn't done anything to 'advance' rock. But a lot of bands haven't and I don't see why that is such a big thing. If you are a good act with good songs and people like you and remember you, you have advanced rock.
I now must address the comment about riding a genre's coattails. In fairness to Bon Jovi (don't know about anyone else but I can't type Bon without the o, it happens every time!) he did come in before the 'hair metal' craze hit full blast. His hit in, I think 83, with Runaway. They were rock, but just because you play hard rock and have long hair and tight pants and have girls in your videos it doesn't make you a cheap hair metal band. That is quintessential rock and roll and there's nothing wrong with that. True he hit it big with Slippery When Wet, right band, right time, right place. The actual hair metal craze didn't break until late 86-early 87 with acts like Poison and Ratt but was not full blown until 88 and lasted until about 91. This from a person who lived it, watching MTV in the 80's first hand.
Blue Room said:
Cant believe I got sucked back into this again. But you are incorrect about a few things as far as your dates and timing. As someone else who lived the same era I can say that the metal craze actually began with Quiet Riot, Motley Crue, Van Halen, and even Ratt (even though you incorrectly stated they started after BJ) around 1982 to 1983. BJ's first album came out in 1984 and it was no breakthrough or big hit. The artists I mentioned already had hit big with the same type of material. In fact all of these acts I mention started before Bon Jovi were even a band. So I dont think your statement is accurate. BJ did ride the wave of a movement that was started by the artists I mention. You could argue they may have been better at it (I would disagree), or maybe even enhanced it or made it more poppy. But there is no way they started it. Their breakthrough album SWW hit 3 to 4 years after this type of music became enormously popular and it was already very popular before BJ even released their first album. I think they may have been a little more successful at it because of their packaging. Girls were really into Jon then and at the beginning that was their primary fan base. The initial attention they received was because of their frontmans looks, not the musical content.
We could go back and forth, but I knew your dates werent right and I was the one that brought up that they road the wave. I still stand by that, because it is just flat out true. Again, nothing wrong with that. But BJ havent done anything that is very original. I just dont think they are that great. Some of you think they are, and thats fine. But there are people that hate U2 also and I disagree with them obviously and you probebly would also. Its all so subjective, but I have to respond when people are quoting facts to prove their point that are just inaccurate.
POP METAL
Blue Room said:OK, but wait, isnt "hair metal" a style and/or image??? Its certainly not any type of major different music as the music by the bands you describe isnt much if any different than the artists I listed. Also, have you seen pictures of Ratt and Motley Crue from 1983 and 1985??? Lets talk about big hair! Thats pre BJ being on the scene in any kind of major fashion for sure. But really I'am looking purely at things from a musical perspective, not style perspective. So I still dont agree. Lets say for arguments sake you are right. Being responsible or on the forefront of HAIR metal. Is that a good thing??? Debatable, but I dont think its anything that makes a band deserving of getting into the HOF. If style and image and being original with that are the criteria. Kiss should have been in already. They were pioneers on that level. Certainly more than BJ ever were. So I still dont think your argument holds any water. Sorry
U2Kitten said:One more thing about Def Leppard, I think the demise of their career was more due to the fact that they shunned not only 'hair metal' but their roots and what they did best and ran from it when they saw it was going out and tried to become something they weren't. They tried Grunge with Slang, then whatever their later 90's record was supposed to be. They returned to their true selves and sound with their last album but it was too late to capture what was lost. Now, they can never dig themselves out because too many people blind and deafen themselves to them by labeling them as hair metal. Well, Joe, Rick, Rick, Phil and whoever they're using to try to replace the late Steve Clark I still like you and remember you fondly
genre: Rock
The least metallic variation of heavy metal, pop-metal became the most popular form of hard rock during the '80s. Some pop-metal bands emphasized metal's most important building block ? the guitar riff ? more than others, but pop-metal's main attraction were the huge, catchy hooks that owed a great deal to the fist-pumping choruses of arena rock. Most of the Los Angeles-based bands (where the scene was heavily concentrated) also drew on the elaborate visual stylings of British glam rock, which resulted in the much-maligned "hair metal" boom of the late '80s. While pop-metal sounded loud and aggressive on the surface, it nearly always had a slick studio sheen that kept it radio-friendly. '70s artists like Aerosmith and Alice Cooper had an undeniable influence on pop-metal, but the band that sparked the true genesis of the style was Kiss. Kiss' music was catchy and utterly simple, and their wildly theatrical visuals were an essential part of their appeal. Next came Van Halen, whose wild party-rock and virtuoso lead guitarist set the style for much of the pop-metal that followed. The first wave of pop-metal ? bands like Motley Crue (who would later become superstars), Quiet Riot, Dokken, Ratt, and Twisted Sister ? wasn't quite as poppy as it would later become, save for Def Leppard's 1983 landmark Pyromania, perhaps the most melodic metal album up to that point. Bon Jovi's 1986 smash Slippery When Wet ushered in the age of hair metal, where photogenic looks (and, yes, teased-up hair) became just as important in selling a band as the music itself. The following year, Def Leppard's Hysteria set new standards for smoothed-out production as well as blockbuster sales. Not all subsequent pop-metal fell into the slick, image-conscious hair-metal camp; Guns N' Roses, Tesla, and Skid Row often had a grittier edge, and Extreme was unpredictably eclectic, while veteran rockers Kiss, Aerosmith, and Alice Cooper all staged pop-friendly comebacks. But by and large, the hair bands reigned supreme, playing lots of sleazy Aerosmith boogie and big AOR-style power ballads with bits of Van Halen flash; Poison embodied the glammed-up, party-hearty excess of hair metal perhaps better than any. Pop-metal and hair metal (and the excess and formula that had come to be associated with both) were effectively wiped off the musical map by grunge in 1991; some pop-metal bands continued to record for smaller labels and cult audiences, but the music's reputation had suffered too much to restore its former glamour.
Vampira said:I classify the Crue as a KISS influenced band, not a hair metal band. Motley Crue are the perfect age to have been into KISS as teenagers. It is very possible that a lot of the hair metal guys such as Brett Michaels were no doubt influenced by David Lee Roth in their teenage years and that is how they manifested it on stage. But Van Halen is not hair metal.
U2Kitten said:I've been w/o a computer for days and this thing drops this far, maybe I should let it die.
A few comments- thanks Flying Fu, Angela and Arw!
Blue Room, I didn't 'incorrectly' state Ratt started after BJ, I'm sure they were playing before but nobody really heard of them before. I watched all this happen, I didn't get my info from a VH1 documentary.
For further proof that Motley Crue were in with the 'bring back rock' after new wave thing, I remember a quote by Mick Mars once. He said, 'we saw everybody cutting their hair and wearing skinny ties and we said, fuck that, we're gonna grow our hair down to our ass and play the loudest, rudest rock ever!'
Think about what rock was, real rock, classic rock in the late 60's and 70's. Long hair tight pants hard playing hard living. That is what some of these bands were shooting for and it's unfair to lump them with the hair metal guys. Most hair metal bands were influenced by the glam rock of the mid 70's, and even U2 admits to that, T Rex and Bowie specifically. But I stand by my statement and I'm glad to see some can see this- hair metal did not really become what it was until the very late 80's and into the early 90's and not all long haired 80's rock bands or songs by them should be labeled that way.