Sexual orientation and music

[Zoots]

Okay, so U2Man and I got into an argument on msn about sexual orientation and music. He says that he can sometimes tell from just listening to a singer's voice and/or the music that they are gay. I call bullshit. Unless the person comes out publicly, I don't think there is any way to tell if a person is gay or not. Just because the Pet Shop Boys have girly voices and dance pop tunes doesn't make them gay. The fact that they openly came out makes them gay. He was saying that Elton John's Sacrifice always sounded gay to him, which makes me go If I hadn't known that Elton was gay, I would've never figured it out from just listening to the music. You guys with me here?

 

[susanp6]

I think i do agree with you yes! I mean a good example is George Michael - i never ever thought he was gay 'til he came out years after Wham!

 

[Bono's shades]

I think a lot of people were shocked when Judas Priest lead singer Rob Halford came out.

 

[corianderstem]

I think U2Man is likely as good as winding people up on MSN chat as he was on Interference.

 

[BVS]

George Michael?

I don't know, there wasn't anything too straight about what he wore in Wham.

But other than that U2Man is full of it...

 

[phillyfan26]

U2Man lives?

 

[snowbunny00774]

I agree, that's bullshit. Tell him I said hi

 

[Zoots]

Let's not focus this on U2Man. Strictly the topic please.

^ I will.

 

[corianderstem]

There is no topic. The topic is bullshit.

You've no one to blame but yourself for mentioning the topic came from U2Man.

 

[snowbunny00774]

I agree, that's bullshit.

^
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Topic

 

[Zoots]

^
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Topic

I didn't direct that at you per say. Just in general.

Boy, this thread is off to a rocky start. lol

 

[phillyfan26]

I assume U2Man's never coming back.

 

[corianderstem]

Even without bringing up U2Man, the premise itself is highly suspect. So, the answer is still bullshit.

 

[Zoots]

Oh... and for the record, this wasn't something he wanted to post with my help! This is MY topic. This is NOT a case of him winding people up.

 

[corianderstem]

This is NOT a case of him winding people up.

He says that he can sometimes tell from just listening to a singer's voice and/or the music that they are gay.

Yeahhhhhh. Do you think he really believes that?

(But yes, I believe you wanted to actually discuss it here on your own behalf.)

 

[snowbunny00774]

I didn't direct that at you per say. Just in general.

Boy, this thread is off to a rocky start. lol

I know



the premise is absurd. you can always guess the orientation of some people by their voice (doesn't matter if they are a singer or not) and sometimes you will be right, those are the odds. throw in how someone presents themselves visually and behaviorally, and that MIGHT increase the odds. you cannot claim to have it down to a science though.

 

[lazarus]

Depeche Mode: Not gay.
Bob Mould of Husker Du & Sugar: Gay

I think those two pretty much refute that theory.

 

[FitzChivalry]

I'm wondering what the aim of this thread was, Zoots?

Did you really think this would generate a dialogue with many different viewpoints?

If it was me, and knowing what little I do about B&C, I would've expected reactions to be almost exactly as they have been -- it's a lame supposition with minute to absolutely no validity.

Next U2Man is going to tell you he can deduce a singer's race and ethnicity from their vocals.

 

[Zoots]

Depeche Mode: Not gay.

Well... Martin Gore is gay, isn't he? But anyway, that's not the point!


Fitz, I think you may be misunderstanding the intent of this thread. I did not intend this to offend anybody and I'm sure U2Man does not intend to offend anybody with his belief either. He only said that sometimes he can tell if the singer is gay. It is just his way of perception I suppose, which I disagree with. I don't think I can ever tell if the singer is gay... unless I know he or she really is.

And as for the race/ethnicity question, I can tell often just by listening if the person is white or black. Does that make me racist? just because I can identify the race from the voice?

 

[zuropa_fit]

Of course you can't tell if someone is gay by the sound of their voice. Everyone knows you have to judge people's sexuality by what they wear and how they cut their hair!

And as for the race/ethnicity question, I can tell often just by listening if the person is white or black. Does that make me racist? just because I can identify the race from the voice?

So, the guy who does Elmo's voice, black or white? (this of course is a loaded question to which you probably know the answer already)

 

[Zoots]

you can always guess the orientation of some people by their voice (doesn't matter if they are a singer or not) and sometimes you will be right, those are the odds. throw in how someone presents themselves visually and behaviorally, and that MIGHT increase the odds.

This is exactly what U2Man is saying, except you said "always" and he's saying "sometimes". You and him are pretty much in agreement that one can generally guess someone's sexuality based on a number of factors. Doesn't mean the guess is correct of course. But I disagree with the aural part of that argument. I simply cannot even make any guesses by just listening to the person talk or sing.

you cannot claim to have it down to a science though.

He never said that. He's only talking about probability/likelihood.

 

[Zoots]

So, the guy who does Elmo's voice, black or white? (this of course is a loaded question to which you probably know the answer already)

I don't know.... because I really haven't... seen/heard.. Elmo.

 

[snowbunny00774]

This is exactly what U2Man is saying, except you said "always" and he's saying "sometimes". You and him are pretty much in agreement that one can generally guess someone's sexuality based on a number of factors. Doesn't mean the guess is correct of course. But I disagree with the aural part of that argument. I simply cannot even make any guesses by just listening to the person talk or sing.

So what exactly is his point Zoots? That you can guess someone's sexuality by hearing their voice and sometimes you might be right. If that is his point then yes, I would agree with that. You might also be wrong in that guess. How are you disputing that?



I'd love to see the transcripts of what you guys argue about.

 

[joyfulgirl]

Originally posted by Zootlesque

And as for the race/ethnicity question, I can tell often just by listening if the person is white or black. Does that make me racist? just because I can identify the race from the voice?

There was a discussion in FYM earlier this year on an article in New York Magazine entitled "The Science of Gaydar," written by a gay man. You can read the entire article here http://nymag.com/news/features/33520/ but here's an interesting excerpt relevant to our discussion--though it's mainly talking about the speaking voice:

At first read, their findings seem like a string of unlinked, esoteric observations. Statistically, for instance, gay men and lesbians have about a 50 percent greater chance of being left-handed or ambidextrous than straight men or women. The relative lengths of our fingers offer another hint: The index fingers of most straight men are shorter than their ring fingers, while for most women they are closer in length, or even reversed in ratio. But some researchers have noted that gay men are likely to have finger-length ratios more in line with those of straight women, and a study of self-described “butch” lesbians showed significantly masculinized ratios. The same goes for the way we hear, the way we process spatial reasoning, and even the ring of our voices. One study, involving tape-recordings of gay and straight men, found that 75 percent of gay men sounded gay to a general audience. It’s unclear what the listeners responded to, whether there is a recognized gay “accent” or vocal quality. And there is no hint as to whether this idiosyncrasy is owed to biology or cultural influences—only that it’s unmistakable. What is there in Rufus Wainwright’s “uninhibited, yearning, ugly-duckling voice,” as the Los Angeles Times wrote a few weeks ago, that we recognize as uniquely gay? Does biology account for Rosie O’Donnell’s crisp trumpet and Charles Nelson Reilly’s gnyuck-gnyuck-gnyuck?

I admit the first time I heard Melissa Etheridge's voice back in 1990 or so, having never laid eyes on her and knowing nothing about her, I suspected she was a lesbian. When I saw her in concert shortly thereafter and realized I was the only straight girl in the audience, it was pretty clear. So how did all those women know? She hadn't come out yet. Maybe it was something in the lyrics? I can't remember. To me, it was her voice. There was something familiar to me in her voice, possibly from having 4 lesbian roommates in college and being well-immersed in gay culture from a fairly young age (for the time, anyway).

That is the only example I can think of where I suspected based on the singing voice alone.

 

[Tiger Edge]

And as for the race/ethnicity question, I can tell often just by listening if the person is white or black. Does that make me racist? just because I can identify the race from the voice?

The answer is very simple. NO. Coming from a melting pot of Spanish speaking peoples, once you hear different accents of Spanish, it is very simple to distinguish who is from what country and whatnot. Does that mean you discriminate? Well, it's up the person, really.
Sometimes you can tell if a person is black or white over the radio. It doesn't matter. As long as you aren't saying, "Well, this sounds like a black guy, NO THANKS!" then there's nothing wrong with identifying it.
Same goes for the topic at hand. I personally wouldn't be able to tell, but there are certain inflections in some, some gay males' voices that may or may not tell you if they are gay or not.

 

[Zoots]

So what exactly is his point Zoots? That you can guess someone's sexuality by hearing their voice and sometimes you might be right. If that is his point then yes, I would agree with that. You might also be wrong in that guess. How are you disputing that?

I'm just saying that I've never been able to guess someone's sexuality from their voice/singing. In fact, the topic of their sexual orientation don't even enter my mind when I'm listening to them.

joyful, that's interesting. So you do think one can tell from the voice then!

As long as you aren't saying, "Well, this sounds like a black guy, NO THANKS!" then there's nothing wrong with identifying it.

Exactly!!! As long as you are not identifying and then reacting unfavorably, I don't see any harm in making a guess.

 

[No spoken words]

I guess my thing is why in the world would I waste a second even trying to figure this out?

So, I don't really know if I can tell or not, because I've never tried....but I'm fairly certain I would not be able to tell, of course.

 

[joyfulgirl]

joyful, that's interesting. So you do think one can tell from the voice then!

I think it's possible, yes. Usually, not.

But what about the speaking voice? Do you mean you really can't sometimes tell from a speaking voice if someone is gay or not? Because I would find that extraordinary, frankly.

But it is interesting that even accents tend to disappear in a singing voice. I as an American can't, for example, necessarily tell if someone is British from their singing voice.

 

[Aygo]

Maybe it's a sign that U2Man needs to get outside... of the closet... seems like he has a very good gaydar.

 

[LemonMelon]

I assume U2Man's never coming back.

This thread set the process back at least three months, as far as I can tell.