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Old 12-27-2007, 08:56 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zootlesque


I didn't direct that at you per say. Just in general.

Boy, this thread is off to a rocky start. lol
I know



the premise is absurd. you can always guess the orientation of some people by their voice (doesn't matter if they are a singer or not) and sometimes you will be right, those are the odds. throw in how someone presents themselves visually and behaviorally, and that MIGHT increase the odds. you cannot claim to have it down to a science though.
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Old 12-27-2007, 09:10 PM   #17
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Depeche Mode: Not gay.
Bob Mould of Husker Du & Sugar: Gay

I think those two pretty much refute that theory.
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Old 12-27-2007, 09:10 PM   #18
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I'm wondering what the aim of this thread was, Zoots?

Did you really think this would generate a dialogue with many different viewpoints?

If it was me, and knowing what little I do about B&C, I would've expected reactions to be almost exactly as they have been -- it's a lame supposition with minute to absolutely no validity.

Next U2Man is going to tell you he can deduce a singer's race and ethnicity from their vocals.


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Old 12-27-2007, 09:25 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by lazarus
Depeche Mode: Not gay.
Well... Martin Gore is gay, isn't he? But anyway, that's not the point!


Fitz, I think you may be misunderstanding the intent of this thread. I did not intend this to offend anybody and I'm sure U2Man does not intend to offend anybody with his belief either. He only said that sometimes he can tell if the singer is gay. It is just his way of perception I suppose, which I disagree with. I don't think I can ever tell if the singer is gay... unless I know he or she really is.

And as for the race/ethnicity question, I can tell often just by listening if the person is white or black. Does that make me racist? just because I can identify the race from the voice?
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Old 12-27-2007, 09:33 PM   #20
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Of course you can't tell if someone is gay by the sound of their voice. Everyone knows you have to judge people's sexuality by what they wear and how they cut their hair!

Quote:
Originally posted by Zootlesque


And as for the race/ethnicity question, I can tell often just by listening if the person is white or black. Does that make me racist? just because I can identify the race from the voice?
So, the guy who does Elmo's voice, black or white? (this of course is a loaded question to which you probably know the answer already)
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Old 12-27-2007, 09:44 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by snowbunny00774
you can always guess the orientation of some people by their voice (doesn't matter if they are a singer or not) and sometimes you will be right, those are the odds. throw in how someone presents themselves visually and behaviorally, and that MIGHT increase the odds.
This is exactly what U2Man is saying, except you said "always" and he's saying "sometimes". You and him are pretty much in agreement that one can generally guess someone's sexuality based on a number of factors. Doesn't mean the guess is correct of course. But I disagree with the aural part of that argument. I simply cannot even make any guesses by just listening to the person talk or sing.

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Originally posted by snowbunny00774
you cannot claim to have it down to a science though.
He never said that. He's only talking about probability/likelihood.
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Old 12-27-2007, 09:46 PM   #22
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Originally posted by zuropa_fit
So, the guy who does Elmo's voice, black or white? (this of course is a loaded question to which you probably know the answer already)
I don't know.... because I really haven't... seen/heard.. Elmo.
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Old 12-27-2007, 09:57 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zootlesque


This is exactly what U2Man is saying, except you said "always" and he's saying "sometimes". You and him are pretty much in agreement that one can generally guess someone's sexuality based on a number of factors. Doesn't mean the guess is correct of course. But I disagree with the aural part of that argument. I simply cannot even make any guesses by just listening to the person talk or sing.


So what exactly is his point Zoots? That you can guess someone's sexuality by hearing their voice and sometimes you might be right. If that is his point then yes, I would agree with that. You might also be wrong in that guess. How are you disputing that?



I'd love to see the transcripts of what you guys argue about.
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Old 12-27-2007, 09:58 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zootlesque

And as for the race/ethnicity question, I can tell often just by listening if the person is white or black. Does that make me racist? just because I can identify the race from the voice?
There was a discussion in FYM earlier this year on an article in New York Magazine entitled "The Science of Gaydar," written by a gay man. You can read the entire article here http://nymag.com/news/features/33520/ but here's an interesting excerpt relevant to our discussion--though it's mainly talking about the speaking voice:

Quote:
At first read, their findings seem like a string of unlinked, esoteric observations. Statistically, for instance, gay men and lesbians have about a 50 percent greater chance of being left-handed or ambidextrous than straight men or women. The relative lengths of our fingers offer another hint: The index fingers of most straight men are shorter than their ring fingers, while for most women they are closer in length, or even reversed in ratio. But some researchers have noted that gay men are likely to have finger-length ratios more in line with those of straight women, and a study of self-described “butch” lesbians showed significantly masculinized ratios. The same goes for the way we hear, the way we process spatial reasoning, and even the ring of our voices. One study, involving tape-recordings of gay and straight men, found that 75 percent of gay men sounded gay to a general audience. It’s unclear what the listeners responded to, whether there is a recognized gay “accent” or vocal quality. And there is no hint as to whether this idiosyncrasy is owed to biology or cultural influences—only that it’s unmistakable. What is there in Rufus Wainwright’s “uninhibited, yearning, ugly-duckling voice,” as the Los Angeles Times wrote a few weeks ago, that we recognize as uniquely gay? Does biology account for Rosie O’Donnell’s crisp trumpet and Charles Nelson Reilly’s gnyuck-gnyuck-gnyuck?
I admit the first time I heard Melissa Etheridge's voice back in 1990 or so, having never laid eyes on her and knowing nothing about her, I suspected she was a lesbian. When I saw her in concert shortly thereafter and realized I was the only straight girl in the audience, it was pretty clear. So how did all those women know? She hadn't come out yet. Maybe it was something in the lyrics? I can't remember. To me, it was her voice. There was something familiar to me in her voice, possibly from having 4 lesbian roommates in college and being well-immersed in gay culture from a fairly young age (for the time, anyway).

That is the only example I can think of where I suspected based on the singing voice alone.
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Old 12-27-2007, 10:07 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zootlesque

And as for the race/ethnicity question, I can tell often just by listening if the person is white or black. Does that make me racist? just because I can identify the race from the voice?
The answer is very simple. NO. Coming from a melting pot of Spanish speaking peoples, once you hear different accents of Spanish, it is very simple to distinguish who is from what country and whatnot. Does that mean you discriminate? Well, it's up the person, really.
Sometimes you can tell if a person is black or white over the radio. It doesn't matter. As long as you aren't saying, "Well, this sounds like a black guy, NO THANKS!" then there's nothing wrong with identifying it.
Same goes for the topic at hand. I personally wouldn't be able to tell, but there are certain inflections in some, some gay males' voices that may or may not tell you if they are gay or not.
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Old 12-27-2007, 10:09 PM   #26
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So what exactly is his point Zoots? That you can guess someone's sexuality by hearing their voice and sometimes you might be right. If that is his point then yes, I would agree with that. You might also be wrong in that guess. How are you disputing that?
I'm just saying that I've never been able to guess someone's sexuality from their voice/singing. In fact, the topic of their sexual orientation don't even enter my mind when I'm listening to them.

joyful, that's interesting. So you do think one can tell from the voice then!

Quote:
Originally posted by PlaTheGreat
As long as you aren't saying, "Well, this sounds like a black guy, NO THANKS!" then there's nothing wrong with identifying it.
Exactly!!! As long as you are not identifying and then reacting unfavorably, I don't see any harm in making a guess.
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Old 12-27-2007, 10:16 PM   #27
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I guess my thing is why in the world would I waste a second even trying to figure this out?

So, I don't really know if I can tell or not, because I've never tried....but I'm fairly certain I would not be able to tell, of course.
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Old 12-27-2007, 10:25 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zootlesque

joyful, that's interesting. So you do think one can tell from the voice then!
I think it's possible, yes. Usually, not.

But what about the speaking voice? Do you mean you really can't sometimes tell from a speaking voice if someone is gay or not? Because I would find that extraordinary, frankly.

But it is interesting that even accents tend to disappear in a singing voice. I as an American can't, for example, necessarily tell if someone is British from their singing voice.
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Old 12-27-2007, 10:40 PM   #29
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Maybe it's a sign that U2Man needs to get outside... of the closet... seems like he has a very good gaydar.
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Old 12-27-2007, 10:47 PM   #30
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Quote:
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I assume U2Man's never coming back.
This thread set the process back at least three months, as far as I can tell.
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