Sequels that surpass the original+=+=+=?

[Lancemc]

Ah, one of the rarest of motion picture occurances. The mythical case of a movie's sequel actually equaling and surpassing the original. For some unknown reason most film-makers simply cannot create a movie series that builds upon the greatness of the first film and produces one or more sequels that take the best of the original, dump the crap, and result in a finer movie-going experience.

However, there ARE a few rare exceptions to this rule. And since this is my thread, I get to point out the most obvious ones, and let you folks struggle and come up with more.

1. Terminator 2: Judgement Day

For me, this represents the ultimate sequel. The first film was revolutionary in its own right, but it was bathed in 80's cheese. The sequel completely blew the doors off the visual effects industry and reinvented the sci-fi action film. And most importantly, this film has a heart and conscience. And the score is utterly breathtaking (possibly the biggest improvement over the original behind the visual effects). James Cameron is truely a God among film-makers.

2. The Empire Strikes Back

Of course. Empire is THE classic example of a sequel overshadowing it's predecessor in every way. Not much needs to be said about this film. It's fucking Empire.

3. The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers

I actually prefer The Fellowship of the Ring over the other two LOTR films, but general consensus is that The Two Towers is the greater of the two films, if not the best of the entire series. I'm not going to argue. It's flippin amazing. You could also put Return of the King on this list if that's what rocks your boat. All three of these films are so damn good you could argue any way.

4. Spiderman 2

This one is definitely debatable, as both movies are quite amazing, but personally, Spidey 2 does more for me than the original. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that 2 doesn't have the lengthy esposition in the beginning on how Parker becomes Spidey. That and Doc Oc is a cool villain. Overall, the visual effects and fight choreography in this film is just better than that of the original too, so score some points there.

 

[LMP]

I agree with every assessment so far.

How 'bout...

Addams Family Values
Aliens
The Bourne Supremacy
Dawn of the Dead
Goldfinger
Rush Hour 2
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
Superman II
X2: X-Men United



And the worst sequels ever:

Batman & Robin
Caddyshack II
The Fly II
Jaws: The Revenge
Rocky V

And the winner, I don't know if this counts, but Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace

 

[Lancemc]

Good picks LMP. I was very temped to put Aliens on my list. Like I said, Cameron is a God, possibly my favorite director, but the one thing that Alien had over Aliens was the terrifying atmosphere and feeling of utter isolation on the ship. And I think that was the key to the original film's success. So, I have absolutely no problem with the suggestion that Aliens is a superior film, but i'm not going to be the one to say so.

And how on Earth could I have forgotten about The Wrath of Khan!? Oh man, talk about a superior sequel. Good call.

I don't agree with Superman II though.

 

[phanan]

The Godfather, Part II
The Empire Strikes Back
Spiderman 2

I think those are the best ones, by far.

 

[LMP]

Have you seen the Richard Donner cut of Superman II? If you do, then you might agree with me.

Aliens and Alien are almost like apples and oranges, but I can watch Aliens over and over again and love it just the same. Alien only has a limited shelf life for me.

Wrath of Khan is the best Star Trek movie. bar none. If any Star Trek movie is to be successful again, bring in Nicholas Meyer to write the script, it will be good.

(I know JJ Abrams is working on Star Trek XI right now, but atleast being in someone who knows how to make a good Trek movie, which is a whole different animal than a good Trek SERIES.)

 

[deep]

GGW 14

 

[ylimeU2]

3. The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers

I actually prefer The Fellowship of the Ring over the other two LOTR films, but general consensus is that The Two Towers is the greater of the two films, if not the best of the entire series. I'm not going to argue. It's flippin amazing. You could also put Return of the King on this list if that's what rocks your boat. All three of these films are so damn good you could argue any way.

I agree, but one thing you have to keep in mind with this has to do with the original story. Tolkien never intended the books to be released in sequels. The publishers wanted it that way. So what you really have in this case is just the middle part of the story, where the best stuff is usually found.

I think your list is pretty complete. It is so rare for the sequel to be better that I really can't think of a thing, asides from the ones you already named.

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

Airplane 2

 

[Lancemc]

Have you seen the Richard Donner cut of Superman II? If you do, then you might agree with me.

Aliens and Alien are almost like apples and oranges, but I can watch Aliens over and over again and love it just the same. Alien only has a limited shelf life for me.

I don't believe I have seen the Riachard Donner cut. I will be sure to check that out ASAP.

And I totally see what you're saying about Aliens. It's infinitely entertaining and re-watchable. That's another thing about Cameron's films. ANY time ANY of his movies is on TV I find I have to sit down and watch the entire thing. This is especially true with T-2 and the Director's cut of The Abyss (One of the most under-appreciated films of all time, in my opinion).

 

[UberBeaver]

Where the Boys Aren't 9.

 

[Shaliz]

How about Toy Story 2? The original was great, but I thought the sequel at least equalled it.

 

[impy13]

Wayne's World 2

Count it.

 

[J_NP]

Hey Don't Forget God Father II It's a super kicker ass

 

[J_NP]

Where the Boys Aren't 9.

Guess that thread of mine inspired u huh , gotta check this one yet

 

[waynetravis]

How about Toy Story 2? The original was great, but I thought the sequel at least equalled it.

hell yeah

 

[LMP]

Wayne's World 2

Count it.

"Instead of a guard dog, there was a great, big, bloodly Bengal tiger..."

 

[thetitans2k]

I agree with every assessment so far.

How 'bout...

Addams Family Values
Aliens
The Bourne Supremacy
Dawn of the Dead
Goldfinger
Rush Hour 2
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
Superman II
X2: X-Men United



And the worst sequels ever:

Batman & Robin
Caddyshack II
The Fly II
Jaws: The Revenge
Rocky V

And the winner, I don't know if this counts, but Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace

Rush hour 1 owns the sequel.

 

[discothequeLP]

Batman Begins

 

[BonosLil'Pal94]

I can't really say much, since I haven't seen the old James Bond movies, but I thought this new one was really great

 

[U2girl]

Terminator 2, Empire strikes back are probably the most obvious cases. Also Godfather II and Cameron's Alien movie.


Die Hard 3rd movie best of the lot IMO. Now that's really rare.
Indiana Jones, I thought the 3rd movie was better than the 2nd one.
Batman Begins, much better than Schumacher two movies, and up there with Burton's.
Also, Revenge of the Sith, I thought it was by far the best of the new Star wars trilogy.

(I would add Back to the future and Bourne Identity series but I really like all the movies in those series equally. I see LOTR as one giant movie split in 3 parts and again, I like all three the same, possibly a slight minus for the last one for the loooong ending)

 

[namkcuR]

Back To The Future II

1985 to 2010 to Alternate 1985 to 1955 and Doc gets zapped to 1885 at the end. Wrap your mind around that.

And that scene in Alternate 1985 when Doc explains Alternate 1985 to Marty by drawing a line on a chalkboard - 'say this line represents time - here's the past, here's the present, here's the future'.

Great stuff.

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

"Instead of a guard dog, there was a great, big, bloodly Bengal tiger..."

...We had to beat them to death with their own shoes!"

 

[CTU2fan]

I think you guys have pretty much covered it. Not sure I'd include Spiderman; Spidey 2 was great but I'm not sure it surpasses 1, if it's > or = then yes, because I think they are comparable.

The 2 Towers had that killer battle, which puts it on top of the LOTR movies, but true it isn't a classic sequel, just the middle of the story. I'd almost say the same for the Star Wars movies actually.

Alien and Aliens were really different movies. Alien was more horror/suspence, while Aliens was closer to action.

And yes, the Abyss is great, one of the all-time underrated films. Cameron is excellent.

 

[Lancemc]

I can't really say much, since I haven't seen the old James Bond movies, but I thought this new one was really great

Well, I've seen almost all of the old Bond movies, and let me just say that Casino Royale is easily the best Bond film ever. I never thought a new Bond film could ever pass Goldfinger or Goldeneye (my personal favorite until now), but Casino Royale met and blew away all my expectations. Good addition to the list.

 

[Lancemc]

Indiana Jones, I thought the 3rd movie was better than the 2nd one.
Batman Begins, much better than Schumacher two movies, and up there with Burton's.
Also, Revenge of the Sith, I thought it was by far the best of the new Star wars trilogy.

Ah. I think you bring up an excellent point here, that I think needs some clarification. In my view, sequels that are better than OTHER sequels don't really count on this list. Those cases are much more common in long series.

Take the Batman series for example. In my opinion, Burton's original is far and away the best of the lot. Now, Batman Begins was probably the best Batman film since the original, but it sure doesn't beat the original. So, just because it's better than two of those god-awful sequels, it still doesn't quite qualify.

Same goes for Indy 3. It's definitely better than The Temple of Doom, but it just can't match Radiers.

So we're talking about sequels better than the ORIGINAL here, the ultimate movie rarity.

I also wanted to talk about the Rocky series here. I saw Rocky Balboa last week and it really blew me away. It's EASILY the best Rocky film since the original. It completely blew away films II-V. AND I think it nearly equaled the original's greatness. AND I actually think Rocky Balboa was better directed that Rocky I, so it comes really close to deserving a place in this list...just not quite.

 

[U2girl]

A sequel is a sequel.




Abyss.

What about Matrix series? I thought the first movie was the best. Also I'd say despite being "kiddy" books, HP movies 3 and 4 were better than the originals.

 

[WinnieThePoo]

i didn't know that abyss is a sequel , but oh well

matrix , the first one stands alone as a single movie
second one asks a lot of questions
third one lacks the answers
all in all , it's worth to watch , if you like cyberpunk and all that technoir stuff
the animatrix is much better then both sequels , anyways

 

[Snowlock]

Ah, one of the rarest of motion picture occurances. The mythical case of a movie's sequel actually equaling and surpassing the original. For some unknown reason most film-makers simply cannot create a movie series that builds upon the greatness of the first film and produces one or more sequels that take the best of the original, dump the crap, and result in a finer movie-going experience.

However, there ARE a few rare exceptions to this rule. And since this is my thread, I get to point out the most obvious ones, and let you folks struggle and come up with more.

1. Terminator 2: Judgement Day

For me, this represents the ultimate sequel. The first film was revolutionary in its own right, but it was bathed in 80's cheese. The sequel completely blew the doors off the visual effects industry and reinvented the sci-fi action film. And most importantly, this film has a heart and conscience. And the score is utterly breathtaking (possibly the biggest improvement over the original behind the visual effects). James Cameron is truely a God among film-makers.

2. The Empire Strikes Back

Of course. Empire is THE classic example of a sequel overshadowing it's predecessor in every way. Not much needs to be said about this film. It's fucking Empire.

3. The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers

I actually prefer The Fellowship of the Ring over the other two LOTR films, but general consensus is that The Two Towers is the greater of the two films, if not the best of the entire series. I'm not going to argue. It's flippin amazing. You could also put Return of the King on this list if that's what rocks your boat. All three of these films are so damn good you could argue any way.

4. Spiderman 2

This one is definitely debatable, as both movies are quite amazing, but personally, Spidey 2 does more for me than the original. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that 2 doesn't have the lengthy esposition in the beginning on how Parker becomes Spidey. That and Doc Oc is a cool villain. Overall, the visual effects and fight choreography in this film is just better than that of the original too, so score some points there.

ACK! Empire will NEVER overshadow the original. Blasphemy.

I'm surprised that people think the Two Towers is beter than the Fellowship, I certainly wouldn't. Especially considering it's the movie that diverged most from the book. I'd take Return of the King over all of them.

T2 is terrible as well. Arnold doesn't even kill anyone, what's up with that? Plus, if machines were going to create robots that look like humans in order to infiltrate the human resistance, why would they make them all look the same (ie Arnold coming back as a different model than the one destroyed in T1). I never could over come that.

Spiderman 2. Blah. At least it didn't have that goofy green goblin costume from Spi1, but I was pretty much bored to tears throughout that movie. I never knew Peter Parker was such a whiner.

So sequels I'd say were better:

Superman II - at least some action for Supes after that snore fest that was Superman The Movie.

Double Ditto for Star Trek II.

Return Of The King as mentioned.

Lethal Weapon II - Much better than the first as Mel and Danny Glover mesh, the plot was more interesting and Pesci was a great addition (who well wore out his welcome by LWIII)

The grand daddy of them all though is Aliens over Alien. Just on another plane.

Indiana Jones Temple Of Doom killed Raiders too.

 

[U2girl]

Good one. Lethal Weapon II. III was decent, and IV worse.

 

[WinnieThePoo]

Re: Re: Sequels that surpass the original+=+=+=?

ACK! Empire will NEVER overshadow the original. Blasphemy.

T2 is terrible as well. Arnold doesn't even kill anyone, what's up with that? Plus, if machines were going to create robots that look like humans in order to infiltrate the human resistance, why would they make them all look the same (ie Arnold coming back as a different model than the one destroyed in T1). I never could over come that.


Lethal Weapon II - Much better than the first as Mel and Danny Glover mesh, the plot was more interesting and Pesci was a great addition (who well wore out his welcome by LWIII)

The grand daddy of them all though is Aliens over Alien. Just on another plane.

T2 is the best sequel ever , it's one of those rare movies where even deleted scenes are fantastic. sci/fi classic .
Aliens- great sci/fi action movie ( Cameron World )
Alien - great sci/fi horror Film ( Ridley Scott )