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Old 02-22-2002, 05:55 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angel:
I will stand my ground and get flamed, but Gretzky is not a whiner. No one wants Team Canada to win gold other than Canada and that is just fact.
Actually, that's a bit of a misconception on your part. I, for one, am an American rooting for the Canadian men's hockey team. It would be super-cool for them to win at an event that obviously means so much to them. And shocking as it may be, not all of us in the States even bother to FOLLOW hockey, let alone care about it enough to hate the Canadian team and wish them evil. So please, let's lay off the martyr complex, eh? Out of curiousity, who do you think wants Team USA to win? The Swedes? The Russians? The Chinese? I think one could say that no one but Americans wants Team USA to win as well.

Ahhh, it's great to be American right now. According to the Russians, we are too pro-Canadian. According to the Canadians, we are anti-Canadian. As usual, we end up the bad guys no matter because people have already made up their minds. *sigh*
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Old 02-22-2002, 06:36 PM   #32
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sorry Sula, but you are the first American I have talked to that is rooting for the Canadians. Anyway, I am not here to argue and I am not anti-american in any way, I just support Gretzky and see his point that's all.
We come from all over the world and all our countries feelings are justified in their own little way. But I will bet that if team Canada manages to win in Sunday, there will be way more people slamming them for things they should have done or whatever then there will be of people simply saying good job.
It's not playing the martyr, it's a fact of being Canadian. We get picked on far too much (and I am not just talking hockey), and let me say, we are not the pansy-asses that many like to think we are.
Plus these are all generalizations. Of course not all Americans watch hockey, neither do all Canadians, and there are plenty all over the world who don't give a damn about sports and what will happen come Sunday.

If people wanna call Gretzky a whiner, fine. Call me one too. I support him and his team. I am damn proud of their acheivements and no matter what happens, Sunday is gonna be one hell of a game. Anyway, you hit it on the head--> Hockey means ALOT to us, so we all get a bit touchy on the subject.
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Old 02-22-2002, 06:38 PM   #33
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It just said on the NBC Nightly News that this is the lead story on the Russian National News, the 'plot' to 'deny Russia its rightful place' and 'conspiracy to give bias to North American atheletes' One old guy said 'the Americans are determined to win at any cost'

They also reported the demand for Slutskaya's extra gold medal was denied. I don't think any decision was more correct than Hughes' gold last night. I thought she deserved it when she blew me away with her free skate, but I never thought the judges would give it to her. They did, and how horrible to begrudge a young girl her dream and reward.

[This message has been edited by Desire4Bono (edited 02-22-2002).]
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Old 02-22-2002, 06:49 PM   #34
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Originally posted by Desire4Bono:
I don't think any decision was more correct than Hughes' gold last night

I agree!! It's like the CBC commentators said last night--> "This is how skating should be". You should be able to come up and win gold with a fantasic performance from 4th place. For once the judges got it right. Even Irina knows that. Did you see her expression at the end of her skate? It had 'Damn I screwed up' all over it. Sarah was amazing and I am so happy for her and her achievement. My god, she is only 16!!
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Old 02-22-2002, 07:15 PM   #35
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*sigh*

This will forever be remembered as the most controversial Olympics to date. We should have seen it coming...

The Russians, as Sula said, are being crybabies. I mean, come on. Anyone with half a brain and piece of toast could see that Hughes was phenomenal, Irina second. I can't believe they're even gonna try and dispute this. They're risking looking like ungrateful spoilsports on the national front (What's this? News Report--they ALREADY look like sore losers on the National Front just by bringing this up...)

If you lived in another country, who would you want to win the hockey game? Canada or the US? Contrary to popular belief, the States has a lot of enemies. I don't think everyone is out to get Canada, Wayne. It's more like, because they know we want it so much, they'll do/say anything to put us down. It's a fact of life.

I'm proud of Team Canada's achievements. I'm proud of the U.S's achievements. God, why the hell can't everyone just be happy fot their counrty and get on with life?

WHy do we have Olympics if it causes this much trouble?

No offence, but if the Russians actually do drop out, I say good riddance. I for one like the Russians, but if they're going to act like that, who needs em?
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Old 02-23-2002, 12:59 AM   #36
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<sigh> I'm really disappointed and embarrassed by the Russians' cry-baby whinging over women's figure skating results. Anyone could see that Sarah Hughes was the best performer on the ring that night, so why do they have to embarrass themselves in front of the entire world by demanding a second gold medal?
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Old 02-23-2002, 01:15 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angel:

Did seem to be an overwhelmingly anti everyone else and pro American nonetheless.

Gretzky is not a whiner. No one wants Team Canada to win gold other than Canada and that is just fact.
I realize what hockey means to Canada, but honestly, you and the former "Great One" must be sipping from the same bottle of paranoia. As most Americans will, I will be rooting for Team USA on Sunday. (Even though in most international circles it is rude for Americans to root for their own countrymen )


Also, as most Americans will, I will be happy knowing that the gold medal will go to the Canadians if not us.


"Sports Reality 101"
-One thing that eludes Mr. Gretzky, etc. is that there is no "hate" involved here. There's nothing to "hate" about Canada. There's nothing you folks do in sports or otherwise that's even remotely controversial. Canada is a hockey power, so it's inevitable that other fans might root against them in the same manner in which the Yankees or Cowboys are rooted against. Also, if Americans have been rooting against the Canadians as you and Wayne claim as "fact", its only because we are natural sports rivals given our geographic proximity.

P.S. And just as a measure of goodwill between our two fine nations, I will be rooting extra hard for Team Gretzky to *win* the silver medal on Sunday!
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Old 02-23-2002, 02:54 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by Clark W. Griswold, Jr:
Also, if Americans have been rooting against the Canadians as you and Wayne claim as "fact", its only because we are natural sports rivals given our geographic proximity.
Gretzky wasn't referring to just America. But you know, I am done here. Canadians and Americans will never see eye to eye and I don't want to argue. I just want to cheer for my country, and as much as America is allowed to be patriotic, than dammit so will I be.
You don't live in Canada so don't pretend to know what we are talking about. After all, we just live in igloos anyway.
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Old 02-23-2002, 03:07 AM   #39
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They really are being ridiculous. Slutskaya did NOT deserve gold, or even the marks she got. I think she deserved third. She isn't even complaining herself anymore, I saw her on the Today show this morning, she smiled and said 'oh it's all right!'

I think the Russians are making a political statement because of what happened in pairs, and it's not the same thing. It was not the same situation as the pairs scandal. Slutskaya did not skate a perfect program, and no one bribed anyone. They're like, well if you gave them an extra gold, give me one too! It's crazy.
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Old 02-23-2002, 03:10 AM   #40
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This stuff is just hilarious.

Quote:
Russian spokesman Rudolf Nezvegsky told Reuters his team felt Slutskaya skated as well, if not better, than American gold medallist Sarah Hughes in the free program.
Leonid Tygachev, the president of the Russian Olympic Committee, said the Russian figure skating federation and the National Olympic Committee had sent a protest to the International Skating Union (ISU).

``Maybe there should be a second gold medal because this is a real champion,'' Tygachev told Reuters television. ``We have not got an answer yet but we will be having a meeting today with Jacques Rogge.

``We were impressed by the American figure skaters...but two of them made small mistakes and, of course, Slutskaya was the best, better than the young American skater.''
So apparently they weren't actually watching the skating. It would appear that according to their logic, all one needs in order to be the best skater is a Russian passport.

Just for the record, Hughes cleanly landed seven triple jumps, including two triple-triple combinations. Slutskaya didnít even do the triple-triple combinations she had planned, and her jumps were not solid. Considering that her strength is her technical ability, and she was clearly "out-techniqued" last night, it is really amazing to me that the Russian contingent has the gall to suggest she was robbed.
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Old 02-23-2002, 03:57 AM   #41
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Am I the only one who remembers the sportscasters at NBC making a MASSIVE fuss over the short-track speedskating? OBVIOUSLY the Chinese skater tried to take Ohno out... even though that would have sent both flying, seeing as they were going around a turn and all, so OBVIOUSLY it was the Korean who did... something... 'cause that NEVER happens in short track speed skating but CLEARLY the gold was STOLEN from the US by the AUSTRALIAN judge - Aussie skater, Aussie judge - those guys are WAY too tanned to be honest... what? Ohno was injured and wouldn't have been able to re-skate it anyway, so we'd lose the silver he just won? Oh. Never mind.

Right. And then they proceeded to, essentially, belittle and openly mock the Australian skater during their in-studio interview.

Not to mention, if you're going to discuss "unfair play" and political wrangling, the fact that Salt Lake City BRIBED their way to winning the games in the first place

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, and all that.

As for Gretzky, I get the feeling that most of the people who are bashing him didn't actually watch the press conference, and are going by sound bytes and press clippings. I'll cut and paste a response I made on the same subject at a different DG (you'll pardon me if it's not all entirely relevant).

There were a several reports coming out of American-based sports journalists (call in shows and sports writiers) that there were serious ego conflicts in the dressing room - the assistant coaches wouldn't listen to Pat Quinn, the assistant coaches were feuding among themselves, and wouldn't speak to each other, that major players were unhappy with their spot on the roster, and thus were refusing to play to their abilities, that Lemieux had quit the team after the first game (hence his not playing in the second), et cetera, et cetera, ad nauseum.

This is the "American propaganda" he was speaking about.

As for "we don't hate them as much as they hate us", well, that's probably true as well - Canada is usually one of the heavy favourites in international hockey tournaments, and as such, the team that everyone wants to beat. Beating team Canada is a "big" accomplishment, and it motivates the other teams. The same isn't really true for the Canadian perspective, save possibly for the long-term rivalries with Russia (from the summit series) and the US (continental rivalry). But for Canada playing Germany, or Sweden, or Finland, or Belarus - there's not really much emotion thrown into it. Sure, you want to win, but that's it, no different than any other game. You want to beat Sweden, you don't want to beat Sweden. Rivalries make and break hockey games - anyone who's seen the Leafs play the Habs, the Rangers play the Islanders, or the Flames play the Oilers knows that, however mediocre one or both of the teams are, they're fantastic games, because there's so much emotion riding on them. Pride is at stake, not just two points for a win.

Finally, with regards to Fleury, no matter how "good" or "bad" a player is, the rules are the rules, and nobody is SUPPOSED to be treated any differently because of their reputation. The NHL in particular has caught an awful lot of flak over this, on several occasions. One that leaps to mind was Tie Domi's sucker punch last season(?), which earned him a multi-game suspension, while virtually identical situations garnered other players game misconducts, period. Like Fleury or not (I'm not much of a fan, though he's been absolutely phenomenal in the olympics thus far - probably the single most consistent player we've got), and while he may well have deserved an interference penalty for the goalie thing, that was a viscious cross check, and SHOULD have been penalized - it crossed the line of *** -for-tat non-calls by the ref. But to get Gretzky's point, just imagine what would have happened if it was Fleury who had thrown the check - there'd be a BIG uproar about it, with people throwing around I-told-you-so's that he shouldn't have been selected for the team, that that kind of play wasn't tolerable in the olympics, that Canadians played dirty hockey. Yet there's nary a peep when it happens TO Canada. THAT was the dichotomy he was trying to express.
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Old 02-23-2002, 06:11 AM   #42
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Angel:
Gretzky wasn't referring to just America.



Gretzky lashes out, says rest of world revels in Canadian
failures

By ALAN ROBINSON
AP Sports Writer
February 18, 2002

WEST VALLEY CITY, Utah (AP) -- Team Canada executive director
Wayne Gretzky lashed out Monday at critics of his Olympic hockey team,
saying other countries -- especially the United States -- revel in Canadian
failure.

Gee, Angel, ya coulda fooled me.

I just want to cheer for my country, and as much as America is allowed to be patriotic, than dammit so will I be.

Honestly, the Olympics would be better off if everyone followed your lead. People should cheer their own country on instead of wasting these two weeks bitching about how patriotic Americans are.

You don't live in Canada so don't pretend to know what we are talking about.

Relax, this is a sports issue, not a "Canadian" issue. You need not be from Canada to understand what Wayne was saying. Plus, being an American, I think I have an understanding of what it's like to have millions of people from around the world wanting to see my country fall on its ass.

After all, we just live in igloos anyway.

Yeah, but I just learned on the Discovery Channel that you guys switch to sod houses in the spring/summer. Yet they are still called "igloos" because, as I'm sure you're aware, "igloo" means "house" in the Inuit language.
Pretty neat, huh? LOL that's NOT how we look at you.




[This message has been edited by Clark W. Griswold, Jr (edited 02-23-2002).]
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Old 02-23-2002, 09:11 AM   #43
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wayne gretzky was upset when he went to that press conference. he has admitted this in pressers since. he even backtracked slightly, seemingly regretting his statements.

i think we are all blowing his comments out of proportion, as are the media, the nations involved(while canada and the u.s. at least), and the various hockey people.

The propoganda that Iron Chef MoFo was referring to is the same thing Gretzky was referring to-these were very negative reports revolving around Canada's team and from what I have learned none of them are remotely true. Lemeuix sat because management asked him to, Quinn hasn't coached with a more open style since he joined the Maple Leafs 3 years ago. This team is together, their on-ice results are an example of that. However these ridiculous rumors come out and of course Gretzky is gonna be upset.

add to that the fact the team, at that point, wasn't playing well at all(the same pressure that has been discussed is being applied to Russian's because of their poor performance at these games was being applied square to gretzky as the point man for team canada), and the fact that this is gretzky's first ever such post and he might run into some problems.

i really think these comments were worth about a grain of salt.

however the media jumps on it, and the fans jump on it, and then the biggest factor was don cherry jumping on top of it. (i fear i am about to lose the non-canadian non-super fans who may not know who don cherry is or what he means but he is an entertaining man who comes on in the first intermission of cbc's early saturday night game every week and talks about european's and their visors, and how great gilmour, yzerman, jovonovski, and several other canadians are, and begrudgingly admits that mats sundin might be the best player this year. he is good for entertainment, but in my opinion his comments must be taken under suspicion) while cherry, according to himself, has been talking about these russian's for ages and now the greatest hockey player ever agrees with him.

this is how these silly comments gretzky made snowballed in my opinion. the debate about them is null. one might dismiss grezky as being in the wrong for going to that press conference so fired up but we've gotta get eyeballs for the paper, right?

oh Chef MoFo, you were spot on about the Fleury incident, but at the same time i understand why hamrlik did what he did. just the same as the czech's complained about fleury laying on top of hasek, if jagr had laid on top of joseph it would be expected, among canadians, that jovonovski, blake or whoever retaliates.
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