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Old 02-21-2002, 09:29 PM   #16
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I've actually seen it happen before, believe it or not, but you're right, it's a bit shady, but, what does it matter now?

congrats, Canada
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Old 02-21-2002, 09:39 PM   #17
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Bob Costas just said this is thought of as a threat and a ploy to scare the judges into voting for Irina Slutskaya over Michelle Kwan and the Russian mens' hockey team over the USA. I hope no one will fall for this. That wouldn't be fair at all. It would only be more crap like the vote swapping in pairs skating. They are just sore over that, but it shouldn't have to get worse because of this! Please!
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Old 02-21-2002, 09:48 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Wanderer:
I've actually seen it happen before, believe it or not, but you're right, it's a bit shady, but, what does it matter now?

congrats, Canada
well it doesn't matter now that canada has won.

yay canada!
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Old 02-21-2002, 09:55 PM   #19
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Originally posted by kobayashi:
well it doesn't matter now that canada has won.

yay canada!
Awesome work by the ladies. Hopefully the men were watching and paying attention.

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Old 02-22-2002, 12:15 AM   #20
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Some ridiculous marks for Irina Slutskaya tonite. She's a strong technical skater but also had her share of flubs and walked away with some undeserving marks in the presentation score. Interestingly enough the Russian judge gave her 5.9s. In any case, Sarah Hughes of the USA comes from 4th place after the short program, wins the free skate, and since Kwan was marked lower than Slutskaya, Hughes takes the gold. Slutskaya silver. Kwan bronze.

I say if the Russians want to make fools out of themselves on the international arena, then by all means let them go ahead and withdraw. They won't be much missed.
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Old 02-22-2002, 12:27 AM   #21
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Originally posted by sulawesigirl4:
Some ridiculous marks for Irina Slutskaya tonite.
I say if the Russians want to make fools out of themselves on the international arena, then by all means let them go ahead and withdraw. They won't be much missed.
well if they leave they look like fools, of course. but if they don't they also look like fools considering their hard ass approach in the press conference, this is assuming the requested investigations are done to their satisfaction(which i'm starting to think might be an oxymoron )

but look at it this way: if they went through with that presser to raise this huge controversy and scare everyone with the thought that one nation could singlehandedly make the olympics into a joke, and THAT is why slutskaya got those marks then their job is done.

i don't know if there are any russian's that hang around here, i don't think i've ever come across one, but i'm actually hoping the american's really stick it to the russian's tommorow evening.
+ who doesn't want see another US Canada hockey matchup?
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Old 02-22-2002, 11:01 AM   #22
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ahhhhh...this is what the olympics are all about. Tearing apart nations and promoting hatred and digust towards all competitors. I could bask in this enviroment for hours.

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Old 02-22-2002, 11:14 AM   #23
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oh my f***ing word.

Quote:
Russians challenge figure skating results, seek gold for Slutskaya
By LARRY SIDDONS
AP Sports Writer
February 22, 2002


SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- Russian officials filed a formal protest of the women's Olympic figure skating final, saying silver medalist Irina Slutskaya should get her own gold medal because of biased judging.

The protest was signed by Russian Figure Skating Federation president Valentin Piseyev and sent to the referee of Thursday night's long program after 16-year-old American Sarah Hughes won the gold.

It singled out the judging that gave Hughes the win after she placed fourth in the earlier short program. Slutskaya finished second and American Michelle Kwan took the bronze.

``We filed the protest last night because we think the judging was biased,'' the head of the Russian delegation in Salt Lake City, Viktor Mamatov, told The Associated Press on Friday. ``Canadian pairs skaters were awarded their gold medals. Now that subjective judging harmed us, we want the same for Slutskaya.''

Last week, Canadian pairs skaters Jamie Sale and David Pelletier were given their own gold medal after the ISU found there had been misconduct by a judge. Russians Anton Sikharulidze and Elena Berezhnaya finished first after the competition.

Asked whether he thinks Slutskaya will be awarded a gold medal, Mamatov said: ``Right now, I don't think anything. We'll wait for the protest to be evaluated, then we'll see.''

Ottavio Cinquanta, president of the International Skating Union, said he was aware of the protest.

``For us, this is not so important,'' said Cinquanta, whose organization is investigating the pairs judging.

Mamatov refused to speculate whether the new controversy would prompt the Russians to leave before the end of the games. Russian officials first threatened to walk out Thursday, citing favoritism and unfair treatment from Olympic officials and judges.

``If decisions are not made and issues we raised not resolved, the Russian team will not play hockey, will not run 30 kilometers, will look very negatively on other factors,'' Russian Olympic Committee president Leonid Tyagachev said Thursday.

He said a high number of Russian athletes had been picked for drug tests and referred to an unspecified ruling by a goal judge in ice hockey.

``I think we are seeing a witch hunt,'' he said.

Russian anger boiled over after nine-time Olympic medalist Larissa Lazutina was disqualified from the 20-kilometer cross-country relay following a blood test.

A short time later, South Korea said it might boycott Sunday's closing ceremony over a judge's decision that gave a short-track speedskating gold to American Apolo Anton Ohno.

The latest Russian protest came only hours before the Russian men's hockey team faced the United States in a semifinal on the 22nd anniversary of the Americans' stirring victory over the Soviet Union at Lake Placid, N.Y.

After meeting with Tyagachev on Thursday, International Olympic Committee president Jacques Rogge sent a letter to Russian President Vladimir Putin to assure him the games were fair and that his nation's anger was understood.

``President Rogge wrote to express sympathy, to say he has been in contact with the sports federation and that the decisions are absolutely correct,'' IOC director general Francois Carrard said.

Putin said there was bias at the games but indicated that Russia won't walk out.

``North American athletes receive a clear advantage,'' Putin told journalists at the Kremlin. ``Let us see how the Olympic Games end. Let us hope that the IOC leadership will manage to solve these difficulties.''

However, the lower house of Russia's parliament passed a resolution 417-0 calling on Russian athletes to boycott the closing ceremony unless the IOC reruns the cross-country race, bars North American referees from the hockey game and apologizes to the Russian Olympic team.

Tyagachev said he told Rogge his nation was ``greatly unappreciated'' in the Olympics.

South Korea unsuccessfully protested an ISU referee's decision Wednesday night that gave the 1,500 meter short-track gold to Ohno. He finished second to a South Korean skater but got the gold when the Korean was ruled to have interfered on the final lap.

``We can take various measures, including not participating during the closing ceremony,'' said Park Sung-in, head of South Korea's Olympic team.

With just three days before the closing ceremony, IOC leaders met Thursday night to discuss the issues.

Rogge spoke with the presidents of skating, skiing and hockey ``and was reassured that their judges are acting in accordance with the rules,'' IOC vice president Kevan Gosper said.

Lazutina was disqualified because of high levels of hemoglobin, a move that knocked four-time defending champion Russia out of the event. Tyagachev said that while the skier's hemoglobin count was just above the legal limit, she was not guilty of doping.

``We are clean,'' he said. ``We have nothing to hide.''

A urine test on Lazutina will determine whether her case will be considered a drug positive. Results were expected Friday. Lazutina, who already has won two silvers at these games, is scheduled to compete in the 30-kilometer race Sunday.

On Thursday, Tyagachev said there was a 24-hour window to address the situation, and that if Russia left Salt Lake City it probably would not compete in Athens in the next Summer Games. ``Once you leave, it is not easy to come back in,'' he said.

Later, Vitaly Smirnov, an IOC vice president from Russia, tempered Tyagachev's remarks, saying there was no ultimatum.

Tyagachev was upset by more than the Lazutina case. He made repeated references to the figure skating judging dispute.

``This was a new decision that was practically unprecedented,'' he said. ``We went along with the decision and tried to look at it objectively. ... But we have only so much patience.''
I'm sorry, but this just takes the cake. The Russians are proving themselves to be the WORST cry-babies in the history of sport. If you watched the skating last night you would know that Slutskaya not only DID NOT deserve the gold medal, she got marks that were too high for her performance. All this amounts to is the Russians being shocked and pissed that anyone could DARE to challenge their supposed superiority in the pairs competition. This is just insanity. The sooner they take themselves out of the Games, the better for all involved.
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Old 02-22-2002, 11:30 AM   #24
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wow.

to my blind eye, hughes definetely won the gold last night, and slutskaya was without a doubt better than kwan. but, as i said, i'm blind.

it is sad that all of this will overshadow the performances on the ice. if the states manages to defeat the russian team this evening, the outcry will be unimaginable from the russian's given their posturing up to this point.

i wouldn't disagree with the russian's that there definetely need to be changes, the women's gold medal hockey game was evidence of this fact, but making seemingly oulandish accusations without providing any sort of proof is not the way to go about engaging this change.

if there goal was to turn the games upside down and into a circus, more than it already is, they have been very successful.
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Old 02-22-2002, 11:58 AM   #25
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Agreed, kobesan. They are turning this into a zoo and have only managed to make themselves look like shrill, pathetic whiners who are not only poor losers but incredibly arrogant. And your untrained eye saw what everyone including the experts and judges saw last night. Hughes was undeniably better than the rest of the field. Slutskaya WAS better than Kwan last night and guess what? Her marks were higher. But she wasn't better than Hughes. Any idiot could see that. And the marks reflected that also. This "biased judging" thing actually could go the other way. Slutskaya's marks were much higher than she deserved for the program she skated. Interestingly enough the Russian judge gave her 5.9s for both technical and presentation...the first is possibly understandable...the second...purely laughable. So if they want to talk about bias, perhaps they should look at themselves first.

As far as hockey goes, I don't know one thing from another there, so I leave it to your expert eye. But I do know that if our men's team goes out there and has the night of their lives and kicks ass, only more whining and uproar will commence. Actually, I wouldn't complain if they did beat us and then went on to play Canada and have their asses kicked. It would be poetic justice and very very sweet indeed.

I think what it boils down to is this. Russia is not yet used to the fact that they are no longer a huge world power. Economically, they are in shambles. They have defaulted on loans and are considered a really bad investment bet. In the past, they have been used to dominating in the Olympics. Now they are finding that in the last 10 years, other countries have been working hard and have athletes that can not only compete but can WIN at these games. As far as the US Olympic team goes, we have made concentrated effort at improving our Winter team, and it's paying off. We've won more medals at these games than ever before and in categories that we've sucked at in the past (ie. alpine events, etc.)

What this whole Russian indignance says to me is simply this. "We are used to being the big bad kids on the block and we don't like the fact that the little kids are growing up and starting to beat us. We can't just admit that they are better than us or that it's possible we could lose some events, so instead we will throw a temper tantrum."

I dunno....I guess I find it all ludicrously funny, insanely frustrating, and really quite depressing.
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Old 02-22-2002, 12:39 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4:
I think what it boils down to is this. Russia is not yet used to the fact that they are no longer a huge world power. Economically, they are in shambles. They have defaulted on loans and are considered a really bad investment bet. In the past, they have been used to dominating in the Olympics. Now they are finding that in the last 10 years, other countries have been working hard and have athletes that can not only compete but can WIN at these games.
I think you nailed it right on.

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Old 02-22-2002, 04:26 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4:
This stuff is just hilarious.

So apparently they weren't actually watching the skating. It would appear that according to their logic, all one needs in order to be the best skater is a Russian passport.

Just for the record, Hughes cleanly landed seven triple jumps, including two triple-triple combinations. Slutskaya didn’t even do the triple-triple combinations she had planned, and her jumps were not solid. Considering that her strength is her technical ability, and she was clearly "out-techniqued" last night, it is really amazing to me that the Russian contingent has the gall to suggest she was robbed.
Oh wow - they should get laughed out of the olympics for making a statement like that. Of course Slutskaya was better? These people are literally blinded by their own arrogance. Anyone with half a brain could've watched last night and seen that no one even approached Sarah Hughes' performance, both technically and artistically. For the Russians to suggest that Slutskaya outskated Hughes is downright laughable.

They should hold a press conference and suggest that - they'd get laughed off the stage. What that statement suggests to me is that the Russian judges feel cheated, because they intentionally gave Slutskaya those ridiculously high marks, hoping she'd be placed first, but the other judges marked fairly, so now Slutskaya got the placement she deserved and the Russians are pissed because it didn't work to their advantage.

All this amateurish posturing is really disappointing. It's like a school bully who one day looks around and sees that his former victims are now the same size as him, and he's whining 'cause he's got no one to dominate anymore. If the Russians do pull out, then I hope the media makes a point of showing how pathetic and faulty their reasons for doing so are.
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Old 02-22-2002, 05:10 PM   #28
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Here's a commentary that I found to be dead on.

Quote:
Maybe there should be gold medal for whining

These Olympics may be remembered more for complaints than competition

COMMENTARY
SALT LAKE CITY, Feb. 21 — Circle Thursday, Feb. 21 on your calendar and make a notation on the date. It’s the day the real world collided with the Olympics and everybody lost.

THE SOUTH KOREANS are filing suit in U.S. District Court. The Russians have issued a 24-hour ultimatum to the IOC in a scene more reminiscent of 1962 than 2002. Wayne Gretzky said the world is out to get the Canadian hockey team. France says its figure skating judge is the object of a witch hunt. The Chinese are no doubt angry that they’re now a day late in joining the litigious fun. And the world is ticked that American fans have the gall to cheer American athletes.

Welcome to the 21st century, sports fans, when the world is at peace, when there is no Cold War and no Iron Curtain and no Berlin Wall, when England and France are connected by a tunnel and France and Germany and Italy share a common currency.

Oh, yeah, and when greed and pettiness and spite are thriving like mold in a bachelor’s refrigerator.

Calling Dr. Rogge! Dr. Jacque Rogge! Report to Emergency! Stat! Make that triple Stat!

Not since the boycotts by the U.S. and friends of the 1980 Moscow Games and the return boycott by the Soviet Union and its pals of the 1984 Los Angeles Games have the Olympics been in such danger. Never has a rookie IOC president faced a bigger and more daunting task than the one dumped on the desk of Rogge Thursday.

The Russians are leaving! The Russians are leaving!

The Koreans are suing! The Koreans are suing!

And the bars in this city — if you can find one — close at 1 a.m.!

Little more than a week ago, many of us thought that Rogge had etched his name in history by demanding redress in pairs figure skating when it was demonstrated that at least one judge’s vote was influenced. Few of us suspected what would follow, mostly because we had the childlike naivete to believe that adults who have sworn to conduct themselves as sportsmen would conduct themselves, if not with complete dignity, at least with a grain of common sense.

In solving one problem, Rogge opened the floodgates to every country with a bone to pick, an axe to grind, or a quibble, beef, argument, disagreement, or protest about officials. Russia is angry at the hockey refs, the figure skating union, and the drug testers who had the nerve to take the blood of one of its cross-country skiers before a competition and disqualify her because it had more hemoglobin than the human body is capable of producing without help.

The doctor did not immediately respond, at least not publically. He sent Francois Carrard, the IOC’s director general, to face the media and tell them, in effect, that his was just another day in paradise. The Russian protests were referred to the appropriate sports federations, and nothing would change.

Carrard, a suave and unflappable man, said the figure skating decision had nothing to do with the current outburst of dissatisfaction. He had faith in the Russian commitment to the Olympics, adding that, “We think the games are great games going fantastically well. There are a lot of emotions. We understand these emotions do create certain situations.”

He gave the impression there was nothing to worry about, either from Russians or Koreans or anyone else. As impressions go, it was better than Billy Crystal’s rendition of Howard Cosell. Whether his show of confidence is warranted remains to be seen.

The Russians aren’t protesting the test result. They’re protesting that the athlete was tested. You can draw your own conclusions, but I’ll just add this: The disqualification left the Russians without a full team in the relay event, which also happened to be an event they expected a gold medal in. And it just so happens that Russia is not doing as well as expected at these Games, and the fans back home are less than gruntled.

What choice did they have, what with all those nasty reporters asking them about the team’s relative failure? They could blame themselves or blame the judges and the American conspiracy to keep everyone but its very best friends and allies from winning anything. The first option was the brave and right action. The second was the coward’s way out, and the Russians jumped at it in a heartbeat.

They gave Rogge 24 hours to address the problem. If he didn’t, they would leave the Games and probably wouldn’t show up in Athens two years hence.

The Koreans didn’t threaten to leave over their dissatisfaction with not having won a gold medal in short-track speed skating. They did say they’re filing suit in U.S. District Court and they may boycott the Closing Ceremonies. And Korean fans, good sportsmen all, spammed the USOC computer until it crashed, and sent death threats to American skater Apolo Anton Ohno, as well as what I must presume was a long list of imagined enemies. I presume it is a long list because I just mentioned the name of a Korean skater in a column I did on Ohno’s first race, and did not suggest he did anything wrong, and I got a screen full of death threats, too.

In light of these protests, Wayne Gretzky’s recent recitation of the wrongs visited on his Team Canada hockey team seem at once both insignificant and terribly mis-timed. Insignificant because they were meant to rally his troops. Mis-timed because they are another log on a fire that is blazing hotter than an active volcano.

This isn’t sport, but I think you’ve probably noticed that on your own by now. We have national delegations trying to get what they think is theirs, but in the process they’re ripping gaping holes in the credibility of the Olympics themselves.

I’d ask them what they think this is doing to the psyche of the fans, whose tolerance for this sort of garbage is thinner than a hobo’s socks. You don’t have to kill the Olympics, fellows, because you’re killing the audience, and without them, you’ve got no games and no forum to posture and pout and whine and roar and threaten.

But if this is the way it’s going to be, I’m all for the U.S. pulling out of the 1972 Olympics effective immediately in protest over the bad refereeing in the gold medal basketball game. And I’m advising Canada to pull out of the 1988 games because the IOC had the audacity not just to test Ben Johnson for drugs after he set a world record in the 100 meters, but also to find drugs in his urine and disqualify him. Everybody should pull out of any Olympics in which the old East German steroid-factory teams competed on the grounds that we now know they cheated. Great Britain should pull out because no one’s come up with a sport yet other than curling at which they can win a medal.

Or, alternatively, let’s just give every athlete a gold medal when he or she checks into the athlete’s village, and let’s instruct the judges to give everybody perfect scores in everything, and let’s fix the timing clocks so that everyone, no matter how fast or how slow, finishes in the same time.

Kurt Vonnegut once wrote a book about things such as these. It’s called “Welcome to the Monkey House.” If he wrote it today, he could call it, “Welcome to the Olympics” and it would mean the same thing.
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Old 02-22-2002, 05:21 PM   #29
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That article is dead on. Screw sportsmanship - we want bragging rights! And we don't care how stupid we look trying to obtain it!
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Old 02-22-2002, 05:42 PM   #30
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Well, I don't agree with it in it's entirety, but alot of it rings true.

Did seem to be an overwhelmingly anti everyone else and pro American nonetheless.

The Olympics are flawed, but I don't feel it's the time to give up. AND it's not just the Olympics, there is corruption in all sports, it just seems to escalate when racing for the gold.

I will stand my ground and get flamed, but Gretzky is not a whiner. No one wants Team Canada to win gold other than Canada and that is just fact.

[This message has been edited by Angel (edited 02-22-2002).]
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