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Old 05-28-2003, 01:33 AM   #31
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Do you think they were "great"???
they were better than Buffalo
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Old 05-28-2003, 01:33 AM   #32
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it helps when you have great teams in front of you. like i said, if hasek was playing with the same teams he would have done the same, if not better.
But by your reasoning, shouldn't Hasek have been able to carry Buffalo all the way?

I wouldn't credit him entirely for the Czech gold medal, they had a really good team that year *and* they lost the last Winter Olympics, with him in goal.

Also, he won a Cup in Detroit for the same reason--that was a great assembly of Red Wings. It wasn't like he had to carry the Nashville Predators or (dare I say it?) the Sabres.

Hasek was a great goalie and I would have him on my team anyday, but I'd still pick Roy. Unless he went crazy on me, then I'd trade him for Hasek.
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Old 05-28-2003, 01:37 AM   #33
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Exactly why I'd take Roy over Hasek. Stanley Cups and Conn Smythes are worth more than Vezina trophies. Even Hasek would tell you that. Roy has won 3 Vezinas, 3 Conn Smythes, and 4 Stanley Cups. Hasek has won 6 Venzinas, no Conn Smythes, and only 1 Cup. Oh gee, whose career would you rather have? Actually, don't answer that. It's pretty blatant who had the better career. These facts don't lie.
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Old 05-28-2003, 01:41 AM   #34
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Also, he won a Cup in Detroit for the same reason--that was a great assembly of Red Wings. It wasn't like he had to carry the Nashville Predators or (dare I say it?) the Sabres.
That's exactly it, AvsGirl...Hasek pretty much sold himself to the Stanley Cup by joining the Red Wings. I mean, this is a team that won the Cup with freakin no show Chris Osgood in net! It obviously doesn't take much to win on that team, lol
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Old 05-28-2003, 01:42 AM   #35
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they were better than Buffalo
I rest my case.
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Old 05-28-2003, 01:42 AM   #36
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He just had the best year of his career in 2001. GAA and save %. Wins, too, if I remember. I mean, the guy was nominated not only for the Vezina, but also for the freakin Hart Trophy just last season. What else does he have to do?
I can always count on you for arbitrary stats. Thank you.

Michael the Canadiens of the early 90's have actually produced superstars and a lot of hall of famers... don't bring up that crap about carrying a team. A goalie can maybe win one series by himself, but after that it has to be a team effort (even Giguere, if anyone actually watched the Ducks play).

As for winning 3 Conn Smythes... Joe Sakic was screwed out of it in 2001, he was the best player in the playoffs (other than the Ray Bourque presence). Can you tell me how the League MVP (among other awards) doesn't win the Conn Smythe when his team wins the cup?... Joe didn't exactly vanish (I think you remember how crappy Roy played against Vancouver... play which continued into the later rounds). They thought Roy was gonna retire (which he should have) so they gave him one last playoff MVP... complete horse doody.

Finally, I don't think anyone wants to demean the career of one Patrick Roy... but it is ultimately more disrespectful to over-exaggerate his accomplishments, especially when you compare him to his peers or predecessors.

PS- is it just me, or is the Finals in '93 the only Stanley Cup Final Michael has ever seen? You mention it like it was your wedding or graduation.
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Old 05-28-2003, 01:43 AM   #37
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i admit that roy had longevity, which allowed to him to put up some nice stats. and that should be taken into account, so he probably is the best goalie, and he did have a better overall career. but, i think hasek had better skills. one on one, in their primes, give me hasek.

and dont give me the stanley cup crap, if hasek played for detroit his whole career he could have won 5 or 6, would that have made him a better goalie just because he was on a team with more talent? no.

the worst player on an awesome team could win a few cups, and a great player on a bad team could never win one. so can you say, well he had a better career because he had 3 cups to the other guy's 0? no, its not really fair because you have to take into account the teams they were on.
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Old 05-28-2003, 01:45 AM   #38
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I mean, this is a team that won the Cup with freakin no show Chris Osgood in net!
yet they cant win with cujo in net
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Old 05-28-2003, 01:46 AM   #39
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Originally posted by Michael Griffiths
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Exactly why I'd take Roy over Hasek. Stanley Cups and Conn Smythes are worth more than Vezina trophies. Even Hasek would tell you that. Roy has won 3 Vezinas, 3 Conn Smythes, and 4 Stanley Cups. Hasek has won 6 Venzinas, no Conn Smythes, and only 1 Cup. Oh gee, whose career would you rather have? Actually, don't answer that. It's pretty blatant who had the better career. These facts don't lie.
I'd take the Vezinas... it's a measure of consistency against your peers. That trophy represents individual accomplishments, and since you are talking about individual accolades... a goalie with a plethora of Vezinas, or Jennings trophies to a lesser degree, would most logically have performed better.

PS- Why don't you tell us who votes on the Conn Smythe Mike?
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Old 05-28-2003, 01:48 AM   #40
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Yeah, but weren't they going against the greatest goalie of all time in Giguere?

(The Red Wings that is, I forgot to quote Chizzer)
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Old 05-28-2003, 01:48 AM   #41
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Can you tell me how the League MVP (among other awards) doesn't win the Conn Smythe when his team wins the cup?...
Easy, he doesn't play as well as the person who contributed more in the drive to winning the Cup. That does happen. If the entire team plays extremely well, sometimes several players deserve the award, but they can only give it to one person, as you know. Gretzky won 8 straight Hart Trophies in the 80s, but only 2 Conn Smythes. Obviously Messier and Hextall were just as deserving in a couple of those finals. Hextall, incidentally, didn't even win the Cup, but still won the Conn Smythe. That's when hockey was honest though.
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Old 05-28-2003, 01:48 AM   #42
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not to mention Roy didn't win any Vezina's after Hasek joined the league.
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Old 05-28-2003, 01:50 AM   #43
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i
and dont give me the stanley cup crap, if hasek played for detroit his whole career he could have won 5 or 6, would that have made him a better goalie just because he was on a team with more talent? no.
If Roy played for Detroit his entire career, they would have probably won *every* year...but why bother with such speculation?
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Old 05-28-2003, 01:51 AM   #44
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yet they cant win with cujo in net
Quiet you.

Alright, you've brought me in the mix... so I'll just rant on all y'all asses. Hasek played for Buffalo, which in its prime had a defense as suffocating as New Jersey... even though they couldn't score, they won by trapping (Lindy Ruff's work). He didn't play for a good team... but he played behind a great defense (not to mention the presence of the "Hey I've got a Selke trophy for every room in my house" Peca). After Buffalo fell apart with Peca's hold out, others left... and the defensive system collapsed. Hasek's numbers suffered as a result... and he fled for Detroit (to a hero's welcome).

I can rant all night... especially if you talkin' goaltendin'.
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Old 05-28-2003, 01:51 AM   #45
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you are missing my point again michael
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