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Old 09-30-2007, 10:31 PM   #61
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I agree - she definitely should be in
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Old 09-30-2007, 10:34 PM   #62
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Originally posted by lazarus
Well, if Chic is acceptable because of their influence on dance culture and dance music, why not Madonna? Even if she spotted underground trends early instead of actually revolutionizing anything, I'd still argue that her songs have more depth to them than most pop music.

What the fuck did Michael Jackson do that was so great? You take away the videos and the dancing and I just see easily-digestible r&b for white people. He certainly isn't a great singer either. The actual musical output of Madonna is a hell of a lot better than what Jackson's career produced, even if she doesn't have a single album that's as revered as Thriller--I'd argue that Like a Prayer is just as good if not better.

And while something like writing and singing about sex might not seem like something that important, she certainly broke down barriers in pop music in that area. It's like discounting the impact that Elvis had--a performer that I'll point out wrote a much smaller fraction of his material than Madonna (who at co-wrote almost every song on every album), and aside from a handful of songs didn't play an instrument either.

Madonna's just an easy target because so much of her career was because of her brilliance at promoting herself and changing her image as her tastes evolved. But the testament is on the albums themselves, which represent nearly the peak of what pop music had to offer in every one of those years, save for the last couple releases. She's a first balloter if there ever was one.
I could not agree more completely! Although I'm quite a big fan of the past 3 albums, especially "American Life" It's disgustingly underrated. You summed up what I thinking though!
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Old 09-30-2007, 10:56 PM   #63
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Beasties
Cohen
Madonna
Chic
Afrika Bambaata

What has John Mellencamp done in the past 20 years worth noticing other than make the single worst commercial song of all-time.

Who's country is this?
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Old 09-30-2007, 11:19 PM   #64
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This is OOOOUUUURRR country!


To be fair, Mellencamp does have a pretty good career behind him. This is going to sound like blasphemy to many, but if he's a cut-rate Bruce Springsteen, he has just as much right to be there as cut-rate Dylan, Mr. Tom Petty, who hasn't really contributed anything more unique music than Mellencamp, even if he didn't make a godawful song for a car commercial.
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Old 09-30-2007, 11:21 PM   #65
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He's never been a critic's choice, and he's definitely not in Springsteen's league, but Mellencamp does have quite the steady body of work, even if it's not spectacular. A lot of chart and sales success, and a couple of classic records from the 80's.

Considering some other artists that have been inducted (see Tom Petty), this is probably good enough for him to be included.
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Old 09-30-2007, 11:28 PM   #66
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That's what makes the Hall of Fame a good idea in theory, but a terrible idea in practice.

How do you determine who gets in? By personal taste, commercial success, relevance, or a combination of both?

I dunno, I just don't want to see 20 years from now that Nickelback is a first ballot Hall-of-Famer because of a steady body of work and sales and radio success.

5 bucks Pete Rose won't be in the Baseball HOF by then either.
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Old 10-01-2007, 12:58 PM   #67
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I'll threaten to set the All Blacks upon you. How about that? I can't say I'd want to get crushed under that rather intimidating forward pack.
Set away !!


And I'll return the favor by sending "The Warriors" to knock them down ... and rather easily they will fall !!


"WARRIORS ... COME OUT TO PLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY !!
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Old 10-01-2007, 01:10 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by LemonMacPhisto
Beasties
Cohen
Madonna
Chic
Afrika Bambaata

What has John Mellencamp done in the past 20 years worth noticing other than make the single worst commercial song of all-time.

Who's country is this?

John Mellencamp DEFINITELY deserves to be in the Rock and Roll HOF! Your ignorance of the man is really showing. I strongly suggest you look up his career.

Btw, I agree the Our Country song is overplayed, but Chevy promoted the song better than his own fuckin record company. A guy like Mellencamp who has been around for a long time has to utilize another method to get his music out to the masses. Especially if his own record company is dicking him around. Nothing wrong with that, right?
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Old 10-01-2007, 02:43 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by LemonMacPhisto
That's what makes the Hall of Fame a good idea in theory, but a terrible idea in practice.

How do you determine who gets in? By personal taste, commercial success, relevance, or a combination of both?

I dunno, I just don't want to see 20 years from now that Nickelback is a first ballot Hall-of-Famer because of a steady body of work and sales and radio success.

5 bucks Pete Rose won't be in the Baseball HOF by then either.
The true test will be when Bon Jovi is eligible. They have contributed absolutely NOTHING important, unique or lasting to rock and roll, yet have a fairly faithful fanbase and are still selling records. Their true claim to fame is being the poster boys for quite possibly the worst genre of music visited upon the public, cheese metal a.k.a. hair metal.

Journey is a big guilty pleasure of mine, and I would have a hard time making a case for them being legitimate honorees, though their earlier work is a bit more complex than the big Steve Perry radio hits. If they're not good enough to get in (not to mention bands like Boston, Styx, or Yes), Bon Jovi has no business even being considered.

If BJ were to sneak through because of longevity, I imagine the credibility of the Hall of Fame would be irrepairably damaged, and would open the doors for Motley Crue, Def Leppard, etc. The big question is whether or not inducting AC-DC, Aerosmith and Van Halen were gateway bands into this lower echelon. Van Halen had the benefit of being first in this kind of party rock genre, and featuring a guy who was pretty damned talented on the guitar. Aerosmith...well, I don't know how to explain how a band whose best material was on their first few albums, and only had a career resurgence because of Run-DMC and Alicia Silverstone has somehow become legendary, but there you have it. AC-DC really stuck to their guns and prevented their music from getting too watered down over the years, and their proto-metal was pretty distinct from all the other stuff at the time.

KISS is a strange case. They're influential in some ways, but not any good ones, and there are so many people who think they were just a novelty act; not an idea without merit. You take away the makeup and stage show and they're really not that big of a deal. Just because everyone knows them doesn't mean they're good enough to get in.
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Old 10-01-2007, 03:57 PM   #70
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
I did google it, and all I got was the Monkees claiming he vetoed their induction and then found this:

"Wenner did not return a call for comment. But a Rolling Stone rep and Rock and Roll Hall of Fame president Joel Peresman both denied Tork's charges, insisting Wenner had no influence on the voting committee and no power to veto who got in. They suggested Tork's beef was a stab at getting free publicity for his new record. That said, The Monkees have never been nominated."

So I don't know. I found no proof he could veto.

Any links?
From Fox News today:

"Last year, in a story reported by this column exclusively, Wenner threw out a vote in which the classic British invasion group Dave Clark Five was voted in and changed it for another round that favored rappers Grandmaster Flash."

and further in the article:

"The Dave Clark Five incident has repercussions, however. I’m told that Wenner was made to meet Clark after I broke that story last March. The group now is guaranteed entry, although it’s a bittersweet win. They are probably not, to paraphrase one of their hits, "Glad All Over."
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Old 10-01-2007, 04:14 PM   #71
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Yeah so far Fox News is the only source that has "confirmed" anything about veto power, so we'll see.

They aren't the highest on the list of reliable news sources.
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Old 10-01-2007, 04:24 PM   #72
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Yeah so far Fox News is the only source that has "confirmed" anything about veto power, so we'll see.

They aren't the highest on the list of reliable news sources.
Well maybe they are a reliable source and maybe they aren't. But they are a news source. And when you couple that with the lack of Hard Rock and Progressive bands in the RH, you have to wonder what exactly is going on.
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Old 10-01-2007, 04:35 PM   #73
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And when you couple that with the lack of Hard Rock and Progressive bands in the RH, you have to wonder what exactly is going on.
Well before I implore any conspiracy theories, I would think it would have a lot to do with the 500 person voting jury.
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Old 10-01-2007, 04:42 PM   #74
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^

Quoting a major news source and citing evidence of a lack of artists in certain categories is not a conspiracy theory. Its also not a 500 person voting jury - its only a 50 person voting jury, who are for the most part all former employees of this "Jann Wenner".
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Old 10-01-2007, 04:47 PM   #75
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Originally posted by rushu2
^

Quoting a major news source and citing evidence of a lack of artists in certain categories is not a conspiracy theory. Its also not a 500 person voting jury - its only a 50 person voting jury, who are for the most part all former employees of this "Jann Wenner".
But your theories started before there ever was one article "confirming" a veto power.

and no it's:

Quote:
Some 500 musicians, industry professionals and journalists vote on the inductions.
Progressive music just isn't that viable of a genre, so it really doesn't suprise me the lack of prog artists. I don't see why Wenner would have anything to do with it.
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