Rock Hall 08 Nominees

[Lila64]

I agree - she definitely should be in

 

[U2isthebest]

Well, if Chic is acceptable because of their influence on dance culture and dance music, why not Madonna? Even if she spotted underground trends early instead of actually revolutionizing anything, I'd still argue that her songs have more depth to them than most pop music.

What the fuck did Michael Jackson do that was so great? You take away the videos and the dancing and I just see easily-digestible r&b for white people. He certainly isn't a great singer either. The actual musical output of Madonna is a hell of a lot better than what Jackson's career produced, even if she doesn't have a single album that's as revered as Thriller--I'd argue that Like a Prayer is just as good if not better.

And while something like writing and singing about sex might not seem like something that important, she certainly broke down barriers in pop music in that area. It's like discounting the impact that Elvis had--a performer that I'll point out wrote a much smaller fraction of his material than Madonna (who at co-wrote almost every song on every album), and aside from a handful of songs didn't play an instrument either.

Madonna's just an easy target because so much of her career was because of her brilliance at promoting herself and changing her image as her tastes evolved. But the testament is on the albums themselves, which represent nearly the peak of what pop music had to offer in every one of those years, save for the last couple releases. She's a first balloter if there ever was one.

I could not agree more completely! Although I'm quite a big fan of the past 3 albums, especially "American Life" It's disgustingly underrated. You summed up what I thinking though!

 

[LMP]

Beasties
Cohen
Madonna
Chic
Afrika Bambaata

What has John Mellencamp done in the past 20 years worth noticing other than make the single worst commercial song of all-time.

Who's country is this?

 

[lazarus]

This is OOOOUUUURRR country!


To be fair, Mellencamp does have a pretty good career behind him. This is going to sound like blasphemy to many, but if he's a cut-rate Bruce Springsteen, he has just as much right to be there as cut-rate Dylan, Mr. Tom Petty, who hasn't really contributed anything more unique music than Mellencamp, even if he didn't make a godawful song for a car commercial.

 

[phanan]

He's never been a critic's choice, and he's definitely not in Springsteen's league, but Mellencamp does have quite the steady body of work, even if it's not spectacular. A lot of chart and sales success, and a couple of classic records from the 80's.

Considering some other artists that have been inducted (see Tom Petty), this is probably good enough for him to be included.

 

[LMP]

That's what makes the Hall of Fame a good idea in theory, but a terrible idea in practice.

How do you determine who gets in? By personal taste, commercial success, relevance, or a combination of both?

I dunno, I just don't want to see 20 years from now that Nickelback is a first ballot Hall-of-Famer because of a steady body of work and sales and radio success.

5 bucks Pete Rose won't be in the Baseball HOF by then either.

 

[MsMofoGone]

Originally posted by Axver
I'll threaten to set the All Blacks upon you. How about that? I can't say I'd want to get crushed under that rather intimidating forward pack.

Set away !!


And I'll return the favor by sending "The Warriors" to knock them down ... and rather easily they will fall !!


"WARRIORS ... COME OUT TO PLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY !!

 

[MrPryck2U]

Beasties
Cohen
Madonna
Chic
Afrika Bambaata

What has John Mellencamp done in the past 20 years worth noticing other than make the single worst commercial song of all-time.

Who's country is this?

John Mellencamp DEFINITELY deserves to be in the Rock and Roll HOF! Your ignorance of the man is really showing. I strongly suggest you look up his career.

Btw, I agree the Our Country song is overplayed, but Chevy promoted the song better than his own fuckin record company. A guy like Mellencamp who has been around for a long time has to utilize another method to get his music out to the masses. Especially if his own record company is dicking him around. Nothing wrong with that, right?

 

[lazarus]

That's what makes the Hall of Fame a good idea in theory, but a terrible idea in practice.

How do you determine who gets in? By personal taste, commercial success, relevance, or a combination of both?

I dunno, I just don't want to see 20 years from now that Nickelback is a first ballot Hall-of-Famer because of a steady body of work and sales and radio success.

5 bucks Pete Rose won't be in the Baseball HOF by then either.

The true test will be when Bon Jovi is eligible. They have contributed absolutely NOTHING important, unique or lasting to rock and roll, yet have a fairly faithful fanbase and are still selling records. Their true claim to fame is being the poster boys for quite possibly the worst genre of music visited upon the public, cheese metal a.k.a. hair metal.

Journey is a big guilty pleasure of mine, and I would have a hard time making a case for them being legitimate honorees, though their earlier work is a bit more complex than the big Steve Perry radio hits. If they're not good enough to get in (not to mention bands like Boston, Styx, or Yes), Bon Jovi has no business even being considered.

If BJ were to sneak through because of longevity, I imagine the credibility of the Hall of Fame would be irrepairably damaged, and would open the doors for Motley Crue, Def Leppard, etc. The big question is whether or not inducting AC-DC, Aerosmith and Van Halen were gateway bands into this lower echelon. Van Halen had the benefit of being first in this kind of party rock genre, and featuring a guy who was pretty damned talented on the guitar. Aerosmith...well, I don't know how to explain how a band whose best material was on their first few albums, and only had a career resurgence because of Run-DMC and Alicia Silverstone has somehow become legendary, but there you have it. AC-DC really stuck to their guns and prevented their music from getting too watered down over the years, and their proto-metal was pretty distinct from all the other stuff at the time.

KISS is a strange case. They're influential in some ways, but not any good ones, and there are so many people who think they were just a novelty act; not an idea without merit. You take away the makeup and stage show and they're really not that big of a deal. Just because everyone knows them doesn't mean they're good enough to get in.

 

[rushu2]

I did google it, and all I got was the Monkees claiming he vetoed their induction and then found this:

"Wenner did not return a call for comment. But a Rolling Stone rep and Rock and Roll Hall of Fame president Joel Peresman both denied Tork's charges, insisting Wenner had no influence on the voting committee and no power to veto who got in. They suggested Tork's beef was a stab at getting free publicity for his new record. That said, The Monkees have never been nominated."

So I don't know. I found no proof he could veto.

Any links?

From Fox News today:

"Last year, in a story reported by this column exclusively, Wenner threw out a vote in which the classic British invasion group Dave Clark Five was voted in and changed it for another round that favored rappers Grandmaster Flash."

and further in the article:

"The Dave Clark Five incident has repercussions, however. I’m told that Wenner was made to meet Clark after I broke that story last March. The group now is guaranteed entry, although it’s a bittersweet win. They are probably not, to paraphrase one of their hits, "Glad All Over."

 

[BVS]

Yeah so far Fox News is the only source that has "confirmed" anything about veto power, so we'll see.

They aren't the highest on the list of reliable news sources.

 

[rushu2]

Yeah so far Fox News is the only source that has "confirmed" anything about veto power, so we'll see.

They aren't the highest on the list of reliable news sources.

Well maybe they are a reliable source and maybe they aren't. But they are a news source. And when you couple that with the lack of Hard Rock and Progressive bands in the RH, you have to wonder what exactly is going on.

 

[BVS]

And when you couple that with the lack of Hard Rock and Progressive bands in the RH, you have to wonder what exactly is going on.

Well before I implore any conspiracy theories, I would think it would have a lot to do with the 500 person voting jury.

 

[rushu2]

^

Quoting a major news source and citing evidence of a lack of artists in certain categories is not a conspiracy theory. Its also not a 500 person voting jury - its only a 50 person voting jury, who are for the most part all former employees of this "Jann Wenner".

 

[BVS]

^

Quoting a major news source and citing evidence of a lack of artists in certain categories is not a conspiracy theory. Its also not a 500 person voting jury - its only a 50 person voting jury, who are for the most part all former employees of this "Jann Wenner".

But your theories started before there ever was one article "confirming" a veto power.

and no it's:

Some 500 musicians, industry professionals and journalists vote on the inductions.

Progressive music just isn't that viable of a genre, so it really doesn't suprise me the lack of prog artists. I don't see why Wenner would have anything to do with it.

 

[rushu2]

^

Your right it is a 500 member voting jury. I was wrong about that, but it is a much smaller nominating jury (made up for the most part of Jann Wenner's former employees, associates, etc.) that nominates who this 500 member jury votes on.

And, I didn't have time to find a source to quote on the Dave Clark Five incident when I originally posted about it - but I knew I had read it somewhere.

Further, Progressive rock was a very viable type of music back in the 1970's. Genesis, Yes, Rush, ELP, Jethro Tull sold tons of records back then and still have an influence on popular, high volume selling modern bands like Tool.

And its not just Prog but many hard rock bands too.

Also, Jann Wenner said something along the lines that Rush would never get into the rock and roll hall of fame on his watch because they give him a headache! I can't find a source for that right now because I am at work. You'll just have to trust me.

So, we'll just have to agree to disagree!

 

[BVS]

^

Your right it is a 500 member voting jury. I was wrong about that, but it is a much smaller nominating jury (made up for the most part of Jann Wenner's former employees, associates, etc.) that nominates who this 500 member jury votes on.

I understand, all I'm saying is I haven't seen any true evidence that all just Wenner's fault, like you've suggested.

^
Further, Progressive rock was a very viable type of music back in the 1970's. Genesis, Yes, Rush, ELP, Jethro Tull sold tons of records back then and still have an influence on popular, high volume selling modern bands like Tool.

And its not just Prog but many hard rock bands too.

That's a short lived time period, given other genres. Just like I don't expect any Electronica bands making it in 2020 even though it was a very viable genre in the 90's.

I can't really think of many hard rock bands that haven't been inducted that deserve it...

^
Also, Jann Wenner said something along the lines that Rush would never get into the rock and roll hall of fame on his watch because they give him a headache! I can't find a source for that right now because I am at work. You'll just have to trust me.

Um, yeah, that's not really how it works... Don't get me wrong, I don't think you are totally making it up, I just like sources before conspiracy theories.

 

[namkcuR]

I can't wait until 2018.

Pablo Honey = 1993.

1993 + 25 = 2018.

 

[LMP]

John Mellencamp DEFINITELY deserves to be in the Rock and Roll HOF! Your ignorance of the man is really showing. I strongly suggest you look up his career.

Says you, but that's why a Music HOF is like communism: a terrific idea enacted horribly.

Laz, watch Bon Jovi get in as first balloter HOFers in a few years.

 

[lazarus]

Watch me blow my brains out afterwards.

Or the Hall of Fame itself.

:meetmeincleveland:

 

[rushu2]

^ Fair enough. I can't find a source for the Rush quote. I've just read about it for years on various Rush Forums and music forums. Maybe Wenner never said it.

And Progressive Rock was popular from about 1969-1977 (approximately) so it wasn't that short of a time period. Incidentally, there are still many progressive rock bands (and not the old ones either) - Porcupine Tree, Opeth, Pure Reason Revolution, Dream theater, Spock's Beard, the Flower Kings and many many more.

The argument has been and can be made that Radiohead and Muse, Coheed and Cambria, Mars Volta are also Prog Rock. Prog is just more underground and not on the radio, written about etc. But it still exists.

Hard Rock - Kiss and Alice Cooper come to mind, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Motorhead, Deep Purple (not a fan of any of these, but you get my drift)

Maybe its not Jann Wenner, but something is wrong when Disco, rap, R&B acts get nominated ahead of rock acts and there is some evidence to indicate that this Wenner has had an influence on what artists are nominated and even offered for induction.

 

[Lila64]

so, we have these NOT in yet:
Genesis, Rush, Yes, Journey, Chicago, Bon Jovi, Kiss, Alice Cooper, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Motorhead, Deep Purple... Many of these should qualify without a doubt, whether you like them or not. Maybe they don't make for good "tv" or an "event" if they get nominated. Many of these bands have lasted, and are still going, unlike the Dave Clark Five, who have a few songs that I like, but don't have the longetivity and body of work of ANY of those bands above. They're all still around making music (for the most part).

It would be nice to know what Wenner's requirements are or the parameters he is supposedly setting for qualification into the HOF.

 

[Screwtape2]

Don't forget that people like Kate Bush and Peter Gabriel who are without a doubt two of the most influential artists of thier time and both border on prog. Without Kate Bush there would be no Tori Amos, Aimee Mann, Fiona Apple and so on.

 

[ladywithspinninghead]

Rush gives Jann Werner a headache?
Then he's clearly not a musician as they're always keen on saying "Rush is a musician's band" ; I've no musical talent but I'm starting to really appreciate them so am disappointed to find they didn't make the list

 

[yertle-the-turtle]

I'd like to visit this Hall when I get to America some day. Should be fun.

At any rate while it's nice that a band should get recognition for what is probably a damn good body of work, I really couldn't care less. Loads of bands I like are hardly considered 'famous' enough to be inducted into a 'Hall of Fame', doesn't really affect what I think of them, the same way I think about how so-and-so is famous enough to be in the Hall.

That didn't make any sense, it's six in the morning.

 

[Lila64]

Don't forget that people like Kate Bush and Peter Gabriel who are without a doubt two of the most influential artists of thier time and both border on prog. Without Kate Bush there would be no Tori Amos, Aimee Mann, Fiona Apple and so on.

I'm not a fan of Kate Bush, so I can't comment on her specifically, but I do agree on Peter Gabriel

I suppose this means bands like Depeche Mode & Duran Duran would be closing in on the 25 year mark very soon as well. Will they be added to our list of non-nominees?

 

[dsmith2904]

Madonna's in!!!! I am so excited. I couldn't imagine her not being voted in at some point because she's made such an impact, but strange things do happen.

CLEVELAND - The Material Girl is about to become a Hall of Famer.

The ever-evolving Madonna was announced as a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductee on Thursday along with John Mellencamp, The Ventures, Leonard Cohen and The Dave Clark Five.

A panel of 600 industry figures selected the five acts to be inducted at the annual ceremony, to be held March 10 in New York.

"The 2008 inductees are trailblazers — all unique and influential in their genres," Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Foundation President and CEO Joel Peresman said in a statement. "From poetry to pop, these five acts demonstrate the rich diversity of rock and roll itself."

To be eligible, artists must have issued a first single or album at least 25 years before nomination.

Madonna Louise Ciccone signed with Sire Records in 1982 and became one of MTV's first stars two years later with "Like A Virgin." She has constantly altered her image and appearance ever since, showing staying power that few '80s stars could muster.

From rosaries and bare midriffs to cone-shaped bras, Madonna's reinvention of herself has been as prolific as her chart dominance, which included seven No. 1 hits and three No. 1 albums in the '80s alone.

The actress and fashion icon created plenty of controversy along the way, drawing the ire of religious leaders in 2006 for a scene of Madonna on a mirrored cross and wearing a crown of thorns as part of her worldwide "Confessions" tour.

Mellencamp, the Indiana native with the ever-changing name, hit the scene as John Cougar in the early '80s with "Jack and Diane" and "Hurts So Good." He later became John Cougar Mellencamp — and the voice of America's heartland — with hits like "Pink Houses" and "Small Town" before finally settling into his given name, John Mellencamp.

Cohen went from acclaimed poet in Canada to a folk rock icon with "Suzanne" and "Dress Rehearsal Rag" in the late 1960s, making him a big part of the singer-songwriter movement.

The Ventures defined instrumental guitar rock in the '60s with surfer anthems like "Walk Don't Run" and "Hawaii Five-O," and The Dave Clark Five were one of the most successful British invasion bands with the iconic "Glad All Over."

The Rock Hall will also honor Little Walter in its sideman category for helping establish the modern blues harmonica on recordings with legends like Muddy Waters and Bo Diddley.

Producers Gamble & Huff will be honored in the non-performer category. Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff's Philadelphia International label, which had artists that included the O'Jays, McFadden & Whitehead, and Lou Rawls, featured powerful rhythm sections with a disco beat.

They won a Grammy for best R&B song on Simply Red's cover of the Blue Notes' "If You Don't Know Me By Now."

 

[LarryMullen's POPAngel]

I pray to god Mellencamp omits Our Country from his set at the induction ceremony.

to Madonna and Cohen getting in.

 

[U2isthebest]

Congrats to Madonna! She's definitely the most deserving nominee this year. I'm thrilled to see Leonard Cohen in too.

 

[lazarus]

Has New Order or The Cure even made a nominees list yet? Two hugely influential bands that also had moderate chart success.