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Old 08-22-2006, 11:00 PM   #16
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Originally posted by Zoomerang96
zedbetty
why the hell do you call him that?
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Old 08-22-2006, 11:01 PM   #17
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Originally posted by ~unforgettableFOXfire~
I don't think there's such thing as a voice of rebellion, or at least not practically speaking. How can the voice of 'the rebellion' transfer from the oppressed to the oppressor without using the language, the mannerisms, the medium, etc that the oppressor uses? It can't. To truly be understood, the oppressed must become uniform with the oppressor to communicate his/her oppression. In doing so, the oppressed becomes (at best) alien to both the dynamic nature of the rebellion itself (because he/she is now akin to the oppressor) and the figure of oppression (because he/she is telling the oppressor where to stick it).

If you leave this hypothetical oppressed/oppressor dynamic behind and just talk about conformity, it's impossible to escape. You can conform to the majority trend, or you can conform to the counter-trend, or you can conform to the counter-trend of the counter-trend, ad nauseum.

Realising this, as long as you're happy and like the music you're listening to, and the messages you're hearing, then who the hell cares what you're listening to because everyone else can shove it. Without making an absurd hyperbole, the names of the people with truly unique ideas throughout our history can probably fit on an 8.5x11 sheet of paper, but that doesn't mean that there haven't been intelligent, capable, visionary people. So what if most of the majority are, and always have been, complacent and dim? The world isn't turned on the whims of the general body of conformers, but by the exceptional particular individuals -- it just seems to me that we try to pass off our 'rock and roll' stars as these visionaries, when in truth none of them have any groundbreaking contributions to make and are in no way exceptional.
good heavens that was good.

thanks for that.

i'll try and sum that up, to see if i understood correctly...

essentially, it's the listener who makes the band/artist out to be far, far greater than is at all necessary or required to appreciate said group/artist's material?
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Old 08-22-2006, 11:02 PM   #18
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Originally posted by Zootlesque


why the hell do you call him that?
because i sometimes get him and sting2 confused.

everyone's entitled to a few honest errors, zootlesque. :blush:
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Old 08-22-2006, 11:03 PM   #19
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Old 08-22-2006, 11:35 PM   #20
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Originally posted by Zoomerang96
"rock and roll" is music for the enslaved.

socially inept, unconscious citizens reflecting the intellect similiar to that of androids, who think they're "fighting back at the system".
The very best artists, *cough, Radiohead* tackle this idea head on. It's amazing that they can infiltrate the Nickelback bubble with their weirdness and take up shelf space at Wal-mart.

It basically all comes down to taste, ultimately. While I may believe that my music is pure and life-changing, a Nickelback fan could say the same thing. That's the really scary thing.

In terms of 'rebellion', I actually wonder if there's a rebellion against those rock-stars-with-a-cause. I mean, isn't it cooler now to sit by your pool and smoke a crack pipe than to worry about the ozone layer?
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Old 08-22-2006, 11:41 PM   #21
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The very best artists, *cough, Radiohead* tackle this idea head on. It's amazing that they can infiltrate the Nickelback bubble with their weirdness and take up shelf space at Wal-mart.

It basically all comes down to taste, ultimately. While I may believe that my music is pure and life-changing, a Nickelback fan could say the same thing. That's the really scary thing.

In terms of 'rebellion', I actually wonder if there's a rebellion against those rock-stars-with-a-cause. I mean, isn't it cooler now to sit by your pool and smoke a crack pipe than to worry about the ozone layer?
If my MTV career doesn't work out, I was thinking I'd buy a gun and start selling crack. I would be like a laid back crack dealer, though. Not mean or anything. I'd just be like 'Hey boys, how's it going? Want some crack?"

But really now, some people just stay in that collective bubble of "the past 6 years" and are Clear Channel's radiobitches.

It's an elitist stance to say "Well the music I listen to is just better than yours", and most of the time I disagree with that, but some bands such as Nickelback, Staind, POD, all of that nonsense make me rescind those words.
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Old 08-23-2006, 12:18 AM   #22
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if you say so, bear. i still think it's chickenshit.

Quote:
Originally posted by Zoomerang96
actually, it's a compliment, hitman.

anytime i can be lumped in with zedbetty by others, it means they think of us as being (at least close) on the same level.

i couldn't ask for much more, really.
what do you mean 'lumped in with zedbetty'. you mean you're not one and the same?

oh sure. next you're gonna say that you're actually caisenema!

my world is imploding, guys.
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Old 08-23-2006, 03:48 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zoomerang96

essentially, it's the listener who makes the band/artist out to be far, far greater than is at all necessary or required to appreciate said group/artist's material?
Short answer: That's exactly what I'm saying.


Longer answer which sortof addresses the implications of being part of blind conformity: It seems that few people have some standard by which to judge quality and so they fall back on common public opinion -- society is their standard. Sure, they could judge the song based on music theory, but who studies music theory anymore? Who studies language and can tell the difference between a good lyric and a bad lyric (in terms of pleasantness of sound and a meaning which the audience can relate to in some way)? Who has an eye keen enough to discern honest integrity from superficial showmanship, since this is clearly a component of contemporary music as well? Who considers these things when judging a song? Should we all make these considerations? Probably, but I suspect almost noone tries, and fewer still actually do it.

Some artists do have vast resevoirs of talent and write compelling tune after compelling tune, album after album. To use a darts metaphor: bullseye, bullseye, bullseye, bullseye. Many more throw blindly at a target they can't see and occassionally hit the bullseye. Of course, when the fans don't know how to play darts either, it's easy for the industry to tell the fans 'guess what, your favourite band just hit the bullseye again!' and to have the people shout 'rock and fuckin roll' while all the time the dart is stuck in the wall 3 feet right of the board. I speculate that this is what happens the majority of the time. A lot of people who don't know what they're talking about concur about something but don't know why and couldn't tell you if asked; they're just taking someone's word for it. If you don't understand where you're at now, how can you possibly understand revolutionary changes when they present themselves? How can you tell if you're being deceived, for that matter? And it is deception: at all levels, whether its top-20 hits or indie rock clubs, you're being sold a name, a brand, an idea, a pretension. Just because its underground doesn't mean it has integrity, nor does financial success equate to great music.

People who use the band/artists credentials as a basis for judging the quality of the art are, I suggest, wrong and participating in any number of varieties of hype. Judgement of a work must be based on its own merits with everything cut out that is inessential: which includes whether the artist has a history of producing good music, or if he/she has a PhD in Music. Having experience and knowledge isn't a guaruntee of successful execution. Just because they're underground and aren't making money doesn't mean they aren't posturing and trying to sell the notion of integrity. Cast all the bullshit aside and let the music speak for itself.

Of course, whether or not its practical to make sure our judgements aren't just lazy regurgitations is a different matter. It's definitely easier to let other people think for you and just go with the flow.
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Old 08-23-2006, 04:12 PM   #24
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Rock and Roll can be anything. The Stones were fighting the system in the 60s, and milking it in the 70s. Whatever you like, listen to. Quiet Riot was hilarious and if you were eight, you loved the Come On Feel the Noise video as you lamented your square parents. Now Quiet Riot plays birthday parties.
















Quiet Riot at my birthday
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Old 08-24-2006, 12:08 AM   #25
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At its best...ROCK AND ROLL STOPS THE TRAFFIC.

But after the show we all still go back to our banks filled like cathedrals, MTV Playboy Crib mansions, etc

Rock and Roll, like any attempted movement shouts at the masses for change...But the change is scant and short lived. The human animal is easily inspired, but difficult to transform.
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Old 08-24-2006, 01:51 AM   #26
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Re: "rock and roll" is music for the enslaved

Quote:
Originally posted by Zoomerang96
"rock and roll" is music for the enslaved.

socially inept, unconscious citizens reflecting the intellect similiar to that of androids, who think they're "fighting back at the system".

rock and roll music is music for the enslaved.


well, I guess it's a good thing I listen to rock 'n' roll, then!

It's the "ad" that drains all the fun out of it.
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Old 08-24-2006, 12:59 PM   #27
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unforgettableFOXfire, you've made some excellent, extremely well-written points in this thread. Particularly this:

Quote:
Originally posted by ~unforgettableFOXfire~


People who use the band/artists credentials as a basis for judging the quality of the art are, I suggest, wrong and participating in any number of varieties of hype. Judgement of a work must be based on its own merits with everything cut out that is inessential: which includes whether the artist has a history of producing good music, or if he/she has a PhD in Music. Having experience and knowledge isn't a guaruntee of successful execution. Just because they're underground and aren't making money doesn't mean they aren't posturing and trying to sell the notion of integrity. Cast all the bullshit aside and let the music speak for itself.

Too many people seem to base the music they listen to on the reactions it will get from others. A fourteen-year-old kid will put on Marilyn Manson, even though he doesn't like the music itself, as he thinks it will piss off his parents. A new U2 fan will hype up "One," since lots of other fans think it's a good track. A fan of indie music will worship a shitty album, just because Pitchfork gave it a 9.0 and it's on an independent label.

I think the moment you start to listen to something and "enjoy" it for any reason other than the music itself, you cease to be a music fan. You listen to something because you genuinely like it, not because you're expected to like it. Conformity is a terrible thing.
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