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Old 01-29-2007, 04:54 PM   #16
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I guess I got off easy then by only seeing a red X.
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Old 01-29-2007, 06:15 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by indra
That's mighty fucking rude Dave.
Err...It's a horse.

I prefer to reserve my grief for sapient life.

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Old 01-29-2007, 06:53 PM   #18
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Ah, brilliant. Human arrogance. We up 'here', and animals down 'there'.
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Old 01-29-2007, 07:03 PM   #19
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I'm not ashamed to say that this story made me cry.

RIP, Barbaro.
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Old 01-29-2007, 07:06 PM   #20
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Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase

barbaro being put out to stud (i.e. he sits in a field and bangs other horses all day) would have brought in amounts of money unheard of in racing circles before.
Can't image he'd have been able to mount and hump a she horse with that bum leg



Quote:
they did it because they honestly felt it was the right thing to do to end the horse's suffering.
So you retract your previous statement? People are hurting and crippled all the time, nobody puts them out of their misery. I've seen dogs and cats living blind and with limbs missing, even in the wild. Animals actually make do better than humans do, and don't complain.
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Old 01-29-2007, 08:28 PM   #21
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Horses are milked of semen all of the time...so are champion show dogs, for that matter. There is a lot of money involved, especially with such a great race horse. There is no need to mount...that's so low tech.

I think it's gone on long enough. They really tried. That infection was only going to keep going up his legs and into his vital organs...nothing but pain and misery from here on out. I applaud his owners for giving up the sperm money and doing what was right for the horse.

Animals don't complain because they can't talk. I've had crippled animals that ruled the world, and I have had animals that were just ready to go. If you're close to the animal, you can just look in their eyes. The fight is gone, and it's almost as if they are begging you to get it over with. That's why sick animals leave their pack and just lie down to wait for death. They know.
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Old 01-29-2007, 08:32 PM   #22
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Ah, brilliant. Human arrogance. We up 'here', and animals down 'there'.
So, a racehorse who broke his ankle had thousands upon thousands of dollars spent to keep him alive so that he could wander around in a field and make babies and hopefully make his owners a lot of money (remember the entire reason Barbaro broke his ankle and had to be killed was to make his owners very very rich by winning the Triple Crown).

Meanwhile, thousands of people of all ages and walks of life all over the world died today. I'm sure many, if not most, of those were easily preventable with even a token increase in effort. The thousands of dollars spent futilely to keep a horse alive so that he could stand out in a barnyard and shag all day would probably have saved at least a few of those human lives. Now what is there to show for Barbaro's life? 2 million dollars for winning the Derby, probably half that much spent on treatment, and the horse ends up finally holding glitter and construction paper together so that a 4 year-old can give his mom a shiny Mother's Day card.

Meanwhile, in Botswana, a 4 year-old has just become an orphan because her mother couldn't afford AIDS meds.

So I guess you'll all have to forgive me if I'm not all broken up over this.

The limited grief I can manage to produce will go to my fellow human beings rather than a horse bred for entertainment that took a wrong step and is now halfway to being mucilage.

If you had personal experience with the horse and are grieving for that reason then fine - you have my apologies. But I'm willing to wager that nobody here had ever heard of Barbaro before the Kentucky Derby, unless they're a heavy horseracing fan. So what are you (referring to the crowd in general, not specifically Angela) grieving, then? The fact that the owners just potentially lost millions? Are you being sad for the sake of it? Grieving the loss of a life (in which case, should we create a thread for every single lifeform that dies? Millions of fairly beneficial bacteria died inside me today, perhaps they each deserve their own thread mourning this great loss to my autoimmune system)?

I think I've made my point, so I doubt I'll come back unless I get a compelling reason to post.

Look, I'm sorry if for some reason you're genuinely really upset about this horse dying. I just fail to see any useful purpose to grieve for an animal (probably) none of us had ever had contact with who had hundreds of thousands of dollars spent on it so that it could stand around, eat grass, and screw all day.

Besides, the only reason people are broken up over this is because he won the Kentucky Derby. If he'd come in 5th in the Derby and then broken his leg in the Preakness you'd never even know about it unless you're involved in horse racing.

I realize it's a little off to compare the plight of an AIDS orphan with that of a gimpy horse, but it's also a little off to grieve more for the horse.

As I said, I think this post is done, and I likely won't be back. It was mostly one big rant, but whatever. It's gotta end sometime, any longer and I'd be

Okay, that one was too easy.
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Old 01-29-2007, 09:31 PM   #23
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DaveC -- Why did you even post here? To show how superior you are? If so you failed miserably. You can give all the lip service you want to "a 4 year-old has just become an orphan because her mother couldn't afford AIDS meds" but I seriously doubt you have given up anything you want so you can help more people. And that includes the things you find entertaining.

Many people have the capacity to feel for both the horse and for that child. Something is lacking in you that you can't and that you feel the need to mock those who can.
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Old 01-29-2007, 09:59 PM   #24
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I personally am no animal rights activist, I don't own pets, I'm not particularly fond of anything in nature really, but, seriously, I can completely understand someone feeling bad about this. I don't see what your stance on this issue is about, Dave. My experience with animals should put me at the far end of the spectrum, being the person who thinks its too bad but won't really think too much of it. I thought that was pretty extreme enough. I completely understand how a person can feel bad for this. It could be an outlet for all of the animal deaths they don't hear about throught this story. It could be related to a personal pet story. Who knows? Compassion for animals is nothing to disrespect. Just because you don't like the horse owning business (or at the very least this owner) doesn't mean it's the horse's fault. To compare the horse to bacteria is probably the most ignorantly absurd statement I have heard today. Animals can feel pain. This animal in particularly has been feeling constant pain normally reserved for older animals of all species. Again, I'm not at all an activist for animals or even interested, but I respect those who are and see where they are coming from. Your comments are way off the mark here.
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Old 01-29-2007, 10:21 PM   #25
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Okay. That post was a little over the top, I admit. I apologize for any offense it caused, that was not my intent for my entry into this thread.

The second post was just rambling. I'd been writing papers all morning, and I was pretty wired from all the coffee. We'll have to agree to disagree on the overall thesis, I guess. But an embarrassing percentage of this post was completely pulled out of my ass. The graphic at the end, while it was an easy joke, was pretty juvenile as well.

So overall, I'm sorry for derailing your thread. I'll leave you all to it.

My original post was intended purely as humor/satire, honestly.



*slinks out the back door*
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Old 01-29-2007, 10:30 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by a_young_old_fan
Horses are milked of semen all of the time...so are champion show dogs, for that matter. There is a lot of money involved, especially with such a great race horse. There is no need to mount...that's so low tech.
The Jockey Club (the Thoroughbred breed registry in the US) requires live cover for foals to be registered, so AI would not have been an option. AI is used extensively in the non racing sport horse industry, but often the qualities which make a horse good at racing don't work for other sports. Plus the stud fees for non race horses are substantially lower.


Quote:
Originally posted by U2Kitten


EXACTLY!! I was just getting ready to say the same thing. And I'm not near 50 yet, but I have aches and pains every day. It's no reason to kill any creature. (I mean unless it's like terminal cancer) I hate to say it but a lot of times when people say they 'put an animal down for its own good' I wonder if maybe that's their justification for it being 'their' own good?
I don't think you understand just how painful laminitis is. Imagine the pain of having your toenails or fingernails ripped off. And that's not all because often the bones in the hoof will rotate and sometimes the tip will break through the sole of the hoof. Horses can't sit either -- they can lie down, but doing so for long periods causes it's own set of problems -- so they really can't get away from the pain. Drugs to control the pain can also cause other serious problems too, especially if used long term. And the bigger the animal the harder it is for them to manage without four functional legs. This horse was pretty much down to two useful legs, both in front, and that just wasn't going to work.

When it became obvious the prognosis was not good and the horse was no longer comfortable (nor could be expected to be comfortable in the foreseeable future) the owners did the only compassionate thing and had him put down.

To me, knowing when it's time and then being willing to euthanise is one, if not the, most important requirement of bring a good animal owner or caretaker. I actually think it's far more cruel to wait too long and allow the animal to suffer than it is to euthanise because a person no longer wants the animal.

U2Kitten -- given your reasoning for your stance against euthanasia, I would guess you're a vegan or at least a vegetarian. Am I right?
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Old 01-29-2007, 10:35 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by indra
DaveC -- Why did you even post here? To show how superior you are? If so you failed miserably. You can give all the lip service you want to "a 4 year-old has just become an orphan because her mother couldn't afford AIDS meds" but I seriously doubt you have given up anything you want so you can help more people. And that includes the things you find entertaining.

Many people have the capacity to feel for both the horse and for that child. Something is lacking in you that you can't and that you feel the need to mock those who can.
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Old 01-29-2007, 10:41 PM   #28
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Just out of curiosity, what do you see as the link between vegetarianism and a passion for animals? I adore animals, often more than people, but I eat meat. I cry at the death of any of mine. I get distraught and rather (pardon the phrase given the thread) unglued if I ever accidently hit one which has now happened twice - both were native birds. I'm unreasonable when it comes to animals. I can never own enough and cannot project my own human emotion onto them enough. It probably is out of control. I'm one of the extreme. Yet, I do eat animals. I justify it numerous ways which probably do make me a bit hypocritical, but I figure I can be ignorantly naive, I dont have to see the actual killing of an animal for meat production. I need iron (actually badly due to anemia). I have to eat. I have to survive. It doesn't make me love them less, though. If anything it tears me up with guilt if I ever give it more than a moment's thought (like I said, I am one t-bone away from being a PETA sociopath!).

I'm really sidetracking, but I know that some view animal affection and love as related to veganism or vegetarianism. As neither, I am wondering what that might put me as in another's view?
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Old 01-29-2007, 10:50 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by DaveC
Okay. That post was a little over the top, I admit. I apologize for any offense it caused, that was not my intent for my entry into this thread.

The second post was just rambling. I'd been writing papers all morning, and I was pretty wired from all the coffee. We'll have to agree to disagree on the overall thesis, I guess. But an embarrassing percentage of this post was completely pulled out of my ass. The graphic at the end, while it was an easy joke, was pretty juvenile as well.

So overall, I'm sorry for derailing your thread. I'll leave you all to it.

My original post was intended purely as humor/satire, honestly.



*slinks out the back door*
You saved yourself...barely.

My heart goes out to any creature (your AIDS orphan included) that is needlessly suffering. I'm sure this horse was, with so much weight on his injury. Poor fella.
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Old 01-29-2007, 11:00 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Just out of curiosity, what do you see as the link between vegetarianism and a passion for animals?
Why I asked U2Kitten is that's she's very hardcore in her anti-euthanasia stance and she commented earlier in the thread that pain was "no reason to kill any creature" leading me to believe she is against any death from other than natural causes. And of course animals used for meat don't die of natural causes. So I thought I'd ask if the conclusion I reached was accurate.
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