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Old 11-16-2004, 08:03 AM   #16
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trent dilfer is better than dan marino, too
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Old 11-16-2004, 09:03 AM   #17
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Dan Marino would have won a Super Bowl except he didn't have a good defense either. The way the SF 49ers secondary shut down Duper and Clayton in SB XIX is legendary ( I feel Lott, Williamson and Wright were THE best secondary ever to play the game)

Peyton would have 3 Super Bowls by now if he had a defense as good as he, Edge and Harrison are.

Brady would have no Super Bowls if not for his defense. His offense is lackluster and dull.

The Redskins have no hope, no QB, not enough D, or anything
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Old 11-16-2004, 09:04 AM   #18
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so it goes back to the old NFL saying 'offense sells tickets, defense wins championships'

Look back through all the history of the SB, the team with the better defense, or the more complete team, has won (though in a few cases it was the luckiest, such as SB XVIII and the Bills/Cowboys matchups)
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Old 11-16-2004, 11:15 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Kitten

Brady would have no Super Bowls if not for his defense. His offense is lackluster and dull.
Yes of course, the vaunted defense did give up 29 points in last years Superbowl and "mediocre" Brady threw for 354 yards and 3 TD's in leading the "Lackluster and dull" offense to 32 points against one of the leagues premiere defenses.

So clearly it was the defense who won the game for the Pats last year, and Brady and company were just "lackluster" bystanders in this game.
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Old 11-16-2004, 11:18 AM   #20
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let's come down to earth a little bit... brady is a great quarterback. he is not mediocre. he does also have the benefit of playing on a great team. manning is also a great quarterback, but he plays on a team who's defense couldn't stop me. if they switched roles and manning took over the pats and brady took over the colts, brady would still be great, but manning would clearly be considered better. much like if ted williams and joe dimaggio switched and teddy ballgame won all those titles and dimaggio won none, dimaggio would still be considered great, but by no means would he be compared with williams, who was clearly better, but had no rings 'cause he had the worse team.
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Old 11-16-2004, 11:23 AM   #21
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Re: peyton manning > tom brady

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yeah, i said it. whatcha gonna do about it?
Nothing. You've already stated the obvious. Anyone who doesn't agree is a chowderhead fanboy (not to take away from Brady, he is good, but he's not Peyton).
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Old 11-16-2004, 11:28 AM   #22
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Frankly from the way I've seen Brady throw, if he were on the Dolts playing in a dome with Harrison and co., he'd break Marino's record with ease as well.
Just like everyone loves to point out that Brady has a good defense to help him win his numerous championships....it should be pointed out that Manning benefits greatly from the Colts' system, his receiving corps, with a sure fire hall of famer in Harrison, a potential HOF back in James and a nice weather free environment to throw in and speedy turf for his receivers.
No doubt Manning is one of the best currently at his position, but if I were putting a team together right now, I'd take Brady before him and frankly I'd likely take Culpepper and Vick(based on where I think he'll be in 2-3 yrs) before him as well.
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Old 11-16-2004, 11:30 AM   #23
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vick and culpepper? now you're really off your rocker.

just like it was OK for me to admit that the red sox deserved to win the championship, it's OK for you to admit that peyton manning is a great quarterback. it won't hurt. come on... just try it.
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Old 11-16-2004, 11:33 AM   #24
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I've been off my rocker for years my friend, but in terms of the overall package Vick has potential (thats why I said based on where I think he'll be in 2-3 yrs) to be a weapon like this league has never seen, and Culpepper is just a beast, he's not as good a pure passer as Peyton's Place, but his physical size and speed add a dimesion thats pretty difficult to defend.
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Old 11-16-2004, 11:35 AM   #25
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Read carefully my post at 2;28 PM...you'll see "No doubt Manning is one of the best at his position", I don't deny he is a great player, but he's not my first choice to QB my team if I'm starting from scratch.
Lets not forget he has been dismal in many big and playoff games and really suffers when forced to play outdoors in Dec and Jan in cold weather sites.
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Old 11-16-2004, 12:17 PM   #26
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might as well have taken Ryan Leaf a couple years back, if we were going on potential.
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Old 11-16-2004, 05:14 PM   #27
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Alright forget potential and forget Vick for now...I still start my team with Tom Brady in today's NFL if I'm a GM who can start a new team by raiding all available players.
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Old 11-21-2004, 04:34 PM   #28
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Any mediocre QB can have a lucky Super Bowl. Remember Mark Rypien? Doug Williams? Anyone can get lucky and have a great game with great stats. That does not prove they are better than someone else. I'm sure there are QB's who never got to the Super Bowl like Dan Fouts (also due to poor defense) who are much better QB's than mediocre Tom Brady, Mark Rypien, Doug Williams. I'm happy for Doug though, he had an awesome game at exactly the right time. Everyone should be so lucky.
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Old 11-21-2004, 04:36 PM   #29
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Manning is very close to Marino's record. I don't know about Dan, but me, I'd rather have one Super Bowl ring than all the records in the book. Still his accomplishments should not be tainted by that, just as it shouldn't for Fran Tarkenton.
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Old 11-21-2004, 05:19 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Kitten
Any mediocre QB can have a lucky Super Bowl. Remember Mark Rypien? Doug Williams? Anyone can get lucky and have a great game with great stats. That does not prove they are better than someone else. I'm sure there are QB's who never got to the Super Bowl like Dan Fouts (also due to poor defense) who are much better QB's than mediocre Tom Brady, Mark Rypien, Doug Williams. I'm happy for Doug though, he had an awesome game at exactly the right time. Everyone should be so lucky.

Tom brady mediocre? please.
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